Ben Lynch:
G'day, good people. Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic podcast by Clinic Mastery. Here's what's coming up inside of this episode. Let's kick into gear with some recruitment tactics.

Hannah Dunn: There are some incredible career pages out there that have really amazing videos on them. People are knocking on their doors to work there.

Ben Lynch: So it's a really short job ad on Seek and then a video.

Hannah Dunn: Yes, you might think it's annoying posting every day and that people will think that you're desperate.

Ben Lynch: Tell them, show them, involve them.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I emailed them and said they'd been successful, but I haven't heard back. I'm like, get them on the phone, on Zoom.

Ben Lynch: What we're showing is the recruitment ecosystem. So it's a paradigm that we've come up with to help you think through your recruitment strategy. This episode will be right up your alley if you're looking to recruit therapists and you're short on time or applicants. Stick around for when we talk about how a property investment prospectus changed our entire recruitment strategy. Plus, you'll want to hear Hannah's take on framing career progressions from the very first interview. Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by allieclinics.com If you're the kind of clinic owner who loves to feel organised and stay ahead of the chaos, you'll love Allie Think of it as your digital clone. It's the single source of truth for all your clinics, policies, systems, and training. Test it for free at allieclinics.com And in other news, applications are now open to work with us one-on-one at Clinic Mastery. If you want support to grow your clinic and bring your vision to life, just email hello@clinicmastery.com with the subject line podcast, and we'll line up a time to chat. All right, let's get into the episode. Well, that was an anticlimax. Jack O'Brien's not here, and in the vein of levelling up the podcast, I thought, well, I better become dressed, prepared for it. He wore a blazer last time, said, oh, you know, the podcast is serious. I've got to level up. So, well, I figured bow tie, had to fetch this out of the depths of my cupboard. Yes, looking sharp. Looking sharp, all dressed up and nowhere to go, as they say.

Hannah Dunn: Well, I hope this is how you and Jack show up every week for me.

Ben Lynch: Well, good to be back in the studio. We might as well get straight into it. Yes. Recruitment. This came up a lot in Palm Cove, where we just had our member retreat and our team retreat. Such a key thing for clinic owners looking to grow is to get more of the right people on the bus, part of the team. And I hear a lot of people say recruitment's hard, it's challenging, it's competitive. We've seen a few shifts and changes recently with where the power balance lies. I remember like two, three years ago, new grads coming out being like, I want 120 grand. And you're like, hold up, hold up, hold up. You still got to prove yourself. Let's kick into gear with some recruitment tactics, strategies that you find are particularly useful for someone who's in desperate need of finding someone on the team. Where do you go to in defining a recruitment strategy?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. I think the best places to go when you're really desperate in the moment is to also ground yourself and think, I just can't recruit anyone because we know the detrimental effect that can have when you move forward with someone who isn't the right fit and you find yourself back in this position only worse because now you've got clients that you've got holding on for appointments. LinkedIn is quite a good place to build your reputation and build some connections, but it's not a today strategy. I was talking to some members about this at the retreat as well, that it is the long game. So just building those connections so that when someone is thinking about leaving their current role, that you come to mind and that they might reach out to you. I think going to your team is your number one spot to be able to go. The connections that your team have to other professionals is incredible. And then I like to think of some companies that I know have quite high turnover rates of their teams and reach out on LinkedIn to those ones, but a more targeted approach in searching those companies and seeing who's working there and seeing if we can entice them over. And I think for all our industries, there are companies that we hear, you know, that things haven't gone well or they're not getting the support that they would like. And a lot of the coaches talk about just being persistent on social media too. Like you might think it's annoying posting every day and that people will think that you're desperate. But I think just getting that message out there consistently is an incredible way to try and get some traction.

Ben Lynch: So how do you open up the conversation on LinkedIn when you reach out to those people that are at other clinics or you may know they're looking for a job? Just talk us through your approach. How do you handle the DMs on LinkedIn as part of the recruitment strategy?

Hannah Dunn: I think a lot of people are sick of hearing from recruiters in their LinkedIn DMs. And so I think you're already ahead of the pack if you're the director or the team leader or whatever your role is within the organisation that you're reaching out for, as long as you're not the recruiter. And I think that also has that personal touch. I personally generally start off softly just by saying like, hey, LinkedIn suggested that we make a connection. And if you've got one of those messages from me, it may not have been true. I may have stalked you first, but I like to just sort of say, oh, I just sort of came across like it was suggested that we had this in common. I'll try and find a connection. I'll often say like I just love connecting with local OTs and so I just wanted to make that connection and then they'll write something back often and then that can start a conversation. If I'm really, you know, time precious and thinking we really need someone now, I'm a little bit firmer in saying like, hey, I noticed that you've been at X position for three years now. I imagine that things are going well. But given you're a local AT, I was wondering if you'd know any other ATs who you'd be able to share this ad with. You know, you're always welcome to apply. But to me, it looks like you're pretty settled in your current role. And so just sort of not really saying to them, hey, we've got a role. Do you want it?

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Hannah Dunn: I'm trying to say what other words and using our friend chat to see what other ways you can work messages like that.

Ben Lynch: That's a really nice way. We've heard so many people use that approach or a version of and then they go, actually, no, I do want to apply. I'm going to check this out. It kind of creates that curiosity, that intrigue for people to follow up. So I really like that. Another. One that I've really liked to use over time is a video in the DM. Have you ever tried that or any voice notes? I found just to add that personal touch because so many times people can feel like it's someone acting on behalf of you, a virtual assistant, another team member. I found it useful to just show my face and 30 seconds of soundbites, if you would, to make the connection. Have you ever done that? Have you found it useful? What's been your experience of using video in the DM to make that initial connection?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I haven't used video or voice memo in the DM, but we have used video in our seek ad instead. And so instead of any text, we've tried a few different versions. We've tried the whole job ad, like you would normally say for anyone with a video attached. We've tried just a couple of dot points with the video attached, and then we've tried no text at all other than to say, click the video to see more. And then just having the video. And we find when we do that, click to see the video or just a few dot points and the video that they get the best reactions and responses. And then the feedback from those interviews is the reason I wanted to apply is because every other job ad looked exactly the same and yours looked different. And so I just wanted to find out more about it. And so that's been really successful.

Ben Lynch: So a couple of bullet points and then a video. So it's a really short job ad on Seek.

Hannah Dunn: Yes.

Ben Lynch: And then a video.

Hannah Dunn: Yes, and it's time stamped so that they know like there's something in there to say like we're currently looking for, you know, two OTs across these two different sites. We're looking to interview on these dates so they know that that ad, that video was created for that ad.

Ben Lynch: Now you're going to have to change your strategy as everyone listening tries a version of this. That is so often the game right of like just trying different things, seeing what works, being nimble with it. What else have you found useful when it comes to the job ad side of things? Because naturally, I think this is where most clinic owners start is like, I'm going to out wordsmith the next person and try and make our job sound even better and get that candidate. And so often that's actually kind of where it stops. And we'll talk about more of the strategies in just a moment, but when it comes specifically to the job ad, which everyone needs to start there, what are some other things that you've found really useful over time and maybe even currently?

Hannah Dunn: Yes, I think answering the questions that you think are those sticky questions that you don't want to answer in interviews, which I think are what's the pay and what are the KPIs. And so if we can answer those questions in the video, then we already know the candidates applying are already on the same page as us. What we don't want to do is waste our time with candidates who are like, nah, I'm not willing to work for that amount. And you know, And that's okay too, like we all have different goals at different points in our career. Sometimes our goal is to be in a really well supported team and get the professional development and get the career progression. Other time our goal is like I just want to pay down my mortgage, I don't care what I do as long as I just get paid the highest dollar. Neither is wrong, it's just like some might be right for where your company is and some might be right for where another company is. And so yeah, naming those things straight up. I don't know if you talk to business owners who find that when they put ads up, Seekaway says like they get more applicants if you put the number there.

Ben Lynch: Put the number there.

Hannah Dunn: It's a great point.

Ben Lynch: Maybe there was a season where we wouldn't. You kind of want people, good people to come in and inquire and maybe choose this based off of what they see and hear, the values of the clinic, the type of care that we provide. But I like your point of putting that out there, and also using a bit of a range as well. I think it gives maybe people with the curiosity to ask for, you know, can we go on the upper end of this? Or it invites the conversation. In short, I found just testing different things, like you might start with that there and then change it or hide it or vice versa on different things. So it's seasonally adjusted. That's probably what I'd say. What I love, and Marcio mentioned this to me a while back, in the light of bring things to the front of the conversation, the front of the team and the journey. And it helps you so often, you know, throughout their years of tenure. And that is, he talked about, we're a team, we're a culture that is quickly adjusting and adapting to new things, whether it's a new tech or software or system, we're always getting better. And he'll use that in the first or second interview with a new team member, just to make sure that, hey, three to six to nine months down the track, when you're like, oh, there's so much change, I haven't got on top of this stuff, there's a way for us to anchor back to that conversation. Or it doesn't happen at all, because we've screened that out at the very beginning. So you know, when you talk about putting the KPIs at the front, that kind of just connects for me as what are we having troubles with in our team today? or have we had troubles with it? Perhaps if we'd been more deliberate in screening for it or having the just open, honest conversation at the start, could we have avoided some of these headaches, you know, down the line? So that's kind of the point that I take from you around having the KPI stuff. How do you talk about that in a way? How do you talk about KPIs in the job ad?

Hannah Dunn: Yes.

Ben Lynch: In a way that doesn't scare them off?

Hannah Dunn: Yes. And so for us, we have a range of what a KPI might look like or an impact our might look like. And so we just talk to the fact that if people aren't talking about it and saying that if they say like, oh, KPIs don't matter. it's just whatever you can do that we'll work around, then that's just not being honest with you and not being true. Because if you said, okay, no worries, I'll see one or two a day, there's no way that a company would be able to remain profitable and sustainable if that was the case. So I use that sort of And so in that light, I want to be transparent that, you know, for our new grads, we do start at around 20 impact hours and that builds up as you become more experienced to 25. And, you know, there are opportunities to go beyond that, but it will depend on your level of expertise and we can talk more in depth in the interview. And so it just sort of gives a bit of a range.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, great. I think, you know, in the recruitment ecosystem, we use a couple of little like mental models for making decisions. And one of them is tell them, show them, involve them. Everyone does the tell them part pretty well. And now with ChatGBT, you know, you can sound really amazing. And typically that is the job ad or the careers page on the website. It's the written word, the copy so often that crushes it. But then, to your point, people say, oh, they all kind of sounded the same. They all offered mentoring support and our culture is amazing, which it may be. But how can you substantiate that, which is where show them comes in? Can it be a video? Can it be a document? Can there be something where they see it in action? The involve them part of it is, can they actually experience it digitally, virtually, or in person? An example of that would be, can I shadow you? Can I observe you? Can I come in for one of your mentoring sessions physically or digitally via Zoom? So tell them, show them, involve them, just enriches that experience. They kind of feel like they understand exactly what it is. Some of those are able to be pulled off in that four to six to eight week window where you're recruiting, but so often these are part of the longer play, the longer journey of attracting more quality humans to your team.

Hannah Dunn: Yes. I was just having a look at my YouTube list. Yeah, they're like 5 minute videos that we put up and they do, like, I record myself talking to camera and then I separate the audio from it and then sometimes it's me talking to camera and other times you can see footage from our retreat days from therapists working in the clinic from a screenshot of our Instagram page. And we encourage them with the show you we always reference back to our Instagram page and say, go and have a look there. And there's a point that you touched on about career pages that we sort of just skipped past. But there are some incredible career pages out there that have really amazing videos on them where people are knocking on their doors to work there. And so having videos, testimonials from your team around what it is and why they love working there is an incredible way to show them as well.

Ben Lynch: It's a great point. What my mind went to was your recruitment budget. So often, like, people wouldn't even have a recruitment budget. It's like, oh, when I need, I'll pay for the ad on Seek so often or Indeed or wherever it may be, and then we'll go from there. But when you invest in pictures and videos, let's say you spend $5,000 to $10,000 on a quality photographer, videographer to come in and capture those things, how long are you going to juice those assets? You'd have them for years. Yes. Like we just updated our photos internally at CMN at the Palm Cove retreat. I was like, gee, we've had those other photos for six years now. I can't really tell. Maybe others would be like, yeah, they're dated. But you're spending on it and you're getting it for many years to come. It's such a worthy investment to do so. We actually did a a spreadsheet and asset where we looked at a whole bunch of career pages, join our team pages, not only in healthcare, but some other fields as well, like KPMG was one that came to mind, possibly like, you know, Nike and Lululemon. Just to see what like big brands are doing and maybe don't have the resources of them, but there's so much that you can emulate from those pages that make you stand out. What are some of the things that you've seen from people around there joining our team pages?

Hannah Dunn: Yes, the pathways.

Ben Lynch: Pathways, like career pathways.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, and I think we all have career pathways in some form or another, but do we write them down? Do we have them on Canva images? Is it easy to show them what that looks like? How long it might take to get there? And I think that really, they're the things that I hear the feedback around. And also, even from the moment that you offer the job, like, what is it that you're doing that is different to everyone else? For example, are you jumping on? Are you giving them a call? Or sometimes people say, yeah, I emailed them and said they'd been successful, but I haven't heard back. I'm like, get them on the phone, get them on Zoom. We get them on Zoom. And so it's that opportunity.

Ben Lynch: So you get them on Zoom when you're offering the role to them. You're the successful candidate.

Hannah Dunn: Yes. So we set them up. If I think that they're going to be the successful candidate in the interview, I'll say to them, Oh, can we just set up a second into a second time to catch up? It's an opportunity for you to ask questions and for us just to check back. I also will let you know whether you've been successful or not in that time. And you know, if you've been successful, it's great. It's an opportunity for us to run through the offer. If you haven't been successful, it's an opportunity to seek feedback. And like occasionally it is that we then interview a second person and we think like a fourth person maybe and we think no wait we want to go with this one not that one and we set up that time. And it is an opportunity to give feedback or to be asked about feedback because there's nothing worse than going for a job interview. and thinking, I never even heard back about whether I was successful. I assume I'm not because I haven't heard. But they may be your future employee. Like it might just be that this time someone was more skilled, but that they still would have been a good fit. And so you want to make sure you're leaving that well.

Ben Lynch: It's a really great point about the regularity and frequency of communication during that phase. Like you're really trying to land the deal, seal the deal. You want to be in frequent communication with folks. I'm going to share my screen here for those that are watching us on YouTube. You are to see this super easy. If you're listening in, come over to YouTube, check it out. We've got heaps of videos every single week. All right. what we're showing is the recruitment ecosystem. So it's a paradigm that we've come up with to help you think through your recruitment strategy and be very deliberate about each stage of a new team member's journey. And it doesn't just start at the application process, but well prior to it. So to just talk through this, we use some concentric circles. And if we start on the very outside, we start with awareness. The fact that people become aware that you even exist, that your clinic is a potential option in their career pathway is so important. So we can talk to different strategies that build that awareness over time. We'll come back to that in a moment, Hannah. Then interest. They may be aware of you, but they need to have some interest in working with you and for you. What are some of the things that you might do to spark that interest in the potential for a career pathway at your clinic? Then is evaluation. This is the typical part of the recruitment process where a job ad is put out. There is an opportunity. Ideally, they come knocking on the door like you mentioned, Hannah. but this is so often they're reacting or responding to a job ad that's been put out or a sneaky little DM in their LinkedIn. And then consideration is where perhaps they've got a few options on the table and they're considering, is it you or is it the other person that I want and what do I really want out of my role? And then enrolment is they enrol into your team. So this is the recruitment ecosystem to clarify there are different measures that you could put in place to figure out how well you're doing in each of these areas, so that we're building something robust over many years to come, rather than just relying on a job ad when we need it. And there are different strategies that you could use at each one of these stages to funnel in more people that are ideal candidates for working with you. So this is the snapshot. I've just changed my screen to give a little bit more specifics here for those watching in. But Hannah, let's start with awareness. You spoke to a couple of those things, like the LinkedIn DM.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Ben Lynch: What else? Let's just start at the awareness stage. What have you seen or what have you used to create more awareness that DARTS is a clinic that's worth working with or for, or for the clinics that you're coaching, to put them in a similar spot?

Hannah Dunn: our pens.

Ben Lynch: Just mail out pens to all the OTs that are graduating.

Hannah Dunn: I do. There are some small things that I do and I know everyone doesn't have this opportunity that I am in. at a university. And so whenever I do have students, we do give them pens whenever we meet a student. Um, but also on the back of my laptop, I've got Hannah dots OT for children and my car is branded. And so that creates conversation. And I know they're things that not everyone wants to do or has, but it just increases the awareness that we are a company that exists and, it's actually quite surprising how many people do know our brand because of those small things. And I think also responding to posts on Facebook forums and using your logo as your image or just getting your presence better known. There are some people who've created Facebook groups and they run those Facebook groups or They offer some free information sessions. Now's a good time to be getting in the forefront of being known as an expert in the NDIS space, or maybe you're an expert in a different area. Maybe it's TAC or a different area, not even funding. Maybe it's, you know, I don't know, adults with a certain diagnostic group. And so linking in with those areas that like footy clubs that lots of people are in or sponsorships where people are going to see your logos.

Ben Lynch: Yes, it's a really great point. The principle that we put here is that you are always hiring. And the key is that you've defined clearly the type of person that you want to attract. and that you find ways to show up on their radar that you exist. So I love a number of those placements. being one or you're working at the uni, so you've got great proximity to the next generation of talent through the university. Forums like Facebook groups, as you mentioned there, being a contributor, having your own. I've seen a number of people, Mick Risk is one of those with the iMove group that is now called something else, but he gets out there and shares his thoughts that so often attract the next generation. There's a version of mentoring. I've seen people start their own podcasts, courses, workshops that they may have, and using even some ads and downloads, whether it's Facebook ads, as an example to go to a download that is the five things I wish I knew when I started my OT career, or physio career, or how to negotiate a salary. It's quite an interesting thing when you are putting out content like that that might otherwise be an uncomfortable conversation. But to your point, you're actually just you're leading with that because you want people to be educated and informed about how to have those conversations thoughtfully. So there are a number of like key things to be able to do. Then we go to interest. which is about sort of capturing those connections and starting conversations. So this definitely leads into the LinkedIn side of things, or maybe in a practical marketing sense, we have here build a database. So it could just be a spreadsheet, could be a document. It doesn't have to be overly sophisticated, but you want to build a database of names and emails and phone numbers and even special interests here. So when it comes to strategies that you've used or you've seen used for this stage of the recruitment ecosystem to create interest, what are some things that come to mind?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I think a lot of people also don't know that on Seek you can go back and have a look at all your previous candidates. And so that is a good place to start if you haven't been tracking who they are.

Ben Lynch: Great, and like literally to get their email or phone number and then follow them up and send them a message?

Hannah Dunn: Yes, and they also have the updates of when, and it might be to do with your membership that you've signed up to, I'm not sure. But you can see who's recently updated their profile, and it's easy to just send them that job ad straight away. But what the next level up to that is, is to hunt them down on LinkedIn and just send them those messages. And you know they're looking, but it hasn't just come through this email chain. Yeah I think they are really interesting. Also there's a lot of Facebook groups that are like OT jobs available and so if you see someone else posting a job out and you see someone commenting on that maybe they're someone worth connecting with and getting in front of as well.

Ben Lynch: Yes. Yep. It's a great point. I think that the key thing here is that you have their details and you're able to be in conversation with them, whether it's LinkedIn or email or text, whatever it may be, it's about more conversation. So this is a key part for clinic owners is if they audit their week or their month, it's like, how am I continuing to nurture this perspective cohort of future team members to the degree that it matters? And of course, some of these things are easier and harder to pull off depending on your time or your money or where you're located. Like for really outback clinics versus CBD clinics, it's a different story as well. So I think as you're listening into this, Just think, you know, what, how could it work for me? How could I try this? So much of this is testing and figuring out whether it works for you or not. There's no silver bullets here.

Hannah Dunn: And I think for those rural and remote places, the things that we've heard have worked really well, having students when there's been a possibility, doing even zooming in sessions where people can zoom and have a look at a session or because placements can be so short. and also running online programs for first year, second year, third year, fourth years, and even year 10 students linking with schools and being able to go into schools and do a talk on the best reasons you need to choose the appropriate runners or what is our sensory system and how to understand it. And so, yeah, I think they're the area that just even getting excited about the careers that they might not even know about.

Ben Lynch: So good, which kind of blends us into the next step, evaluation, where they become a prospective team member. Sidebar. One of my favourite shows on Netflix is called Chef's Table. Without boring you with too much of the details, when I was going through school, I wanted to be a chef. One of my hero's inspirations was Jamie Oliver. I mentioned this at Palm Cove. I got laughed down, like, you can't cook. You can barely do toast. No, I loved it. And you and I both did cooking in year 12, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was super, super fantastic. Anyway, not that you want to hear my life story, but on Chef's Table, it's like cinematic quality. They interview typically Michelin star chefs. And the amount of chefs there that are in outback, rural, remote locations around the world and are able to attract the best talent from the CBD to come and work for them is incredible and inspiring. So I actually love learning from different industries and being able to say, well, how could we apply a model like that to what we do here in healthcare? So for those that do find it challenging to recruit, I'd suggest you think different. You take inspiration from some of these places. If nothing else, watch Chef's Table. It's a great, great watch. So let's go to evaluation. Be their trusted advisor. The idea here is that Therapists are making decisions now and will continue to do over time about their career. Hopefully it's not that they're leaving the profession because they're burnt out or sick of it, though that happens. They're thinking about proximity of their home to their work. They're thinking about how much can I earn? What are the career progressions? They have all these questions. So how can you support them in thinking through these? and making decisions. So let's go down this path here, Hannah, of evaluation to be their trusted advisor. Some of the strategies that you've used or seen used that do this particularly well.

Hannah Dunn: I think even when people, like, people reach out about questions about jobs, I think one thing we like to do is just be really open and transparent about whether people are calling to ask us about a job, whether they're calling other places and to say, hey, like, both sound like great places to work. This is what we offer. This is, you know, what they may offer. We'd recommend you ask them these questions. And we'll often talk to them about the fact that it's okay if they don't choose to work with us. If we give them an offer, we just want to make sure that they're being well supported in their career and that we're always here if they want to come back. I think what you spoke about before being on podcasts and being answering questions, being seen in the community as an expert and a leader and someone who is approachable. We don't want to spend all our time answering LinkedIn questions by second year OTs, but finding a space where you can be seen and they can go back to those questions as well.

Ben Lynch: It's a great point. I saw a few folks in Palm Cove at the member retreat having recruitment as their focus. And they were looking at what they had like a list of maybe the top 10 questions that a young therapist might have about the profession. And they were going to create a number of assets, videos and downloads, content that they could share with the profession. Not everyone's going to be a potential candidate, but to that brand awareness piece, like you help one and they share it with a friend and we start to build this awareness that, you know, I might not work here for various reasons, but they seem like a really great place to work. Like they're always helping out. That's really, really neat. So yeah, that's a really practical thing. What are the top 10 to 20 questions that someone might have about working with you or working in the profession in general? And then how could you go about answering those?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. And people spoke about, you know, blog posts and all those sorts of things. And yes, just changing that up to be a video sometimes is so helpful, as you were saying, like just getting your face out there rather than just a written blog piece is really valuable. And I know people are hesitant to go on camera, but we all hate it really. And we all just pretend it's another fake it till you make it moment. So I just encourage you to get in front of the camera.

Ben Lynch: How did you get through it? You're obviously a doer, but if you go back, what were some of the things practically that you found helpful to make that transition where now you're more willing to do it, even if you don't love it, you're more willing to do it?

Hannah Dunn: Being on camera?

Ben Lynch: Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah. a company called Epic, which was an early intervention service. And I had a director there who made us record our clinic sessions and then we would show the team and then the team would give us what we did well and what we could do better. And I was like three years out or something at this stage. And I was so anxious about it, but just seeing other people do it and the amount of support that was provided to get through that. I think after that, anything seemed easier, but that was such a valuable learning exercise. And yeah, I think it's just about the repetition and practicing and watching yourself back and thinking, and I know we all hate watching ourselves back.

Ben Lynch: Cringeworthy.

Hannah Dunn: Cringeworthy. But I think just that practice, repetition, and just realizing that no one thinks about you as much as you think about yourself. Like, no one cares.

Ben Lynch: Great advice.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah.

Ben Lynch: Great advice.

Hannah Dunn: What about you? Do you just love it?

Ben Lynch: Love dressing up? No, no, no. I remember being incredibly anxious and I didn't realise this until many years later to the point where I'd avoid it. Yeah, I really struggled with it. And perhaps a number of those things were not feeling clear on what I was going to say. And so what helped me practically was rather than just turning on the video and trying to wing it, just having a couple of bullet points that I knew I could anchor back to. and also just trying to say it as briefly and succinctly as possible, which is hard for me because I'm a slow talker and it's very tricky. So those things help. The repetition as well is getting through that discomfort. And I think if you can quickly move to making it a habit. Like you said, I did that three months ago, but I've done 50 things in between now and then. So that's a distant memory versus I did it three months ago. I've done nothing since. And so all I'm thinking about is that last version. So the repetition's like super valuable. And talking on something that you feel relatively confident in, competent in, I think is a great win to begin with.

Hannah Dunn: And there's that example of the pottery classes where they got students, you know this one?

Ben Lynch: You know I don't watch pottery content.

Hannah Dunn: where they got students to make as many vases as they could, and they got the other group of students to do one vase and make it as perfect as they could. And so their expectation was that the team that had one pot to work on were going to end up with the better product, but actually they found that the students who had the repetition in actually ended up with a better product in the end. So it's about, as you said, getting those reps in.

Ben Lynch: Love it. I do remember that. The pottery threw me off

Hannah Dunn: Might be a different example. I might be butchering it. But it's okay. We'll be confident in what we say.

Ben Lynch: Exactly. Consideration. We're now moving on to they are a candidate for the role. They have applied for the role. Perhaps they're in the interview process. This is where we're actively going through exploring this. So the principle here that we use is sell them a career, not a year. So often, like, the job is packaged, this is what you're going to earn, and it's per annum, so it's like this year, and here are the inclusions. They're not future pacing, well, here's year two, year three, year four, year five. Here's what it could look like, to your point about pathways. So talk me through strategy-wise, how do you do this consideration phase?

Hannah Dunn: Yes. And after we've finished this, I'm happy to share my screen and show you the pathways that I spoke about before.

Ben Lynch: Should we do it now?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, we can do it now.

Ben Lynch: All right. I'll stop sharing.

Hannah Dunn: Steal your screen.

Ben Lynch: Let's go for it.

Hannah Dunn: So we talk about that potentially they might come in as a new graduate or a recent graduate. Maybe they're coming in an OT level, maybe a senior OT. So it's a Canva image that has the dots going up one side and then senior OT at the top. And then coming down the other side, being our stream leaders, team leaders, and then a senior team leader. And the arrows just show that as they become more experienced on the team or more experienced in their clinical work, that we increase the percentage area versus general. So we talk about new graduate OTs being really a generalist when they start with us. And then when they're a senior OT, it may be that you want to specialize 50% of your caseload in children under the age of two who have had NICU before they came in. So really specialist area. And then as we come down this other side, we're reducing the clinical caseload and increasing projects and supervision or mentoring now of other team members. So there's more opportunity for it to be less all day clinical work and more opportunities for some of that project work. So that really helps paint that picture of those progressions.

Ben Lynch: And at what point are you distributing this, making this accessible to the team? What have you found work?

Hannah Dunn: in the interview, we're showing them that so that we've got that scope. And then in regards to painting a picture of what the dollar amounts will be. is that we talk about it in the interview. We're not looking at any visuals because I think that the rewards program that we use, it's actually a clinic mastery rewards program, um, is a little bit complicated sometimes when you like, it's a lot of information to take on in an interview, if you are, have never done a rewards program before. So we'll talk a little bit about the rewards program, but it's when we do the job offer, which is why we need to be on zoom so that we can use some visuals around What does that job offer actually look like? And what does that reward actually look like? And then we down, and then this image is included in that document. It's a slide show. And then we download that and send it off to them. We call it the next step is yes. And so at the end of the document, I'll say like, Steph, are you going to connect your future with dots or and they'll say like I just want to know where they're at at that point and so sometimes I say absolutely I'm in and other times I'll say yeah I just need to digest those numbers and then I'll get back to you.

Ben Lynch: It's a really great point around framing up their career progression. I have a slide a little bit further down here. This has got our old branding on it. I think this was from two years ago or thereabouts, where we have essentially like coordinates on a map, some GPS points of now, and then, then can be sort of three to five years down the track. And a couple of things for the now we say, you know, you know, what's important to you when making this decision about where you work, especially if there's a few on the cards that they're entertaining. You know, when seeking advice about important decisions, who do you speak with? Tell me about how they've guided you or how you want them to guide you. It's like my spouse, my parents, you know, my friends. It's useful to get some of that context. You know, what excites you about joining the Dots team? What's worked previously in another workplace that you've really loved? And what's not worked? You know, what are you hoping might be different here? These just help with some of that context. Because then, essentially, when we want to pitch them back the opportunity work here, we want to take some of those insights write them down, make sure they feel heard and seen. And then on the career side, we look at what is your ideal day, ideal week, ideal client, ideal income, some pathways that you would like to pursue or contemplate. Don't want to be boxed in. You know, they're feeling like, well, this is the first date. You know, I don't want to commit to anything. It's not in concrete. But what are some things that, you know, ignite your curiosity or you're interested in exploring more. We have a clinic champion here as another bullet point, which is if you've got someone on your team that is just a raving fan, they've been with you for a while, potentially they play a role in that interview process by having a conversation or by being there, right? their desire statement, which is a little bit of, you know, what does their future life look like? And then we've got here package to mirror the above answers, including some of their language, which then I might have like a really quick fly through this. Here it is. Is this similar to what you've got, Hannah? What we're showing is essentially eight to 12 pages of a slide deck that is grabbing all that information, packaging it up, and then you either print it or deliver it digitally. It feels like this really personalised proposal to work at the clinic. And it comes with, as you said, next step is yes. People are blown away when they get this, right? And it sort of came from this idea of, They're investing their time, they're investing their career in you. If you made any other investment into a property, into shares, into something else, you would have some version of an investment prospectus. And so we sort of modelled that principle and concept and said, well, that would be pretty important for team members because it's incredibly competitive. Let's create an investment prospectus for our prospective team member. Talk to me about some of the experiences you've had in presenting a document like this to candidates. What reactions have you had?

Hannah Dunn: Absolutely. All of those things you spoke to, like, whoa, I've never had anyone do this for me before. Like, this is incredible. This is so clear. You must have all your policies and procedures, like, so clear if you start off this way. And back to your point about, like, asking them who they're prospective people are that they chat to, they'll say like, my mum loved it, and like if they're coming back after we've shared it with them. So it's important that they can then show those people that they want to, their trusted advisors, what you're actually offering them. There's never anyone coming back saying, hey can you just remind me about what we said about X, Y and Z, because it's all there. And you touched on that point about what's your expectation, like what's your ideal wage? And I think people fear away from that conversation because what if they say $110,000? Yeah well if they do then you know that they're not the right fit if you've got a new graduate job going. So the way that we phrase this question, or I phrase it, is This can be a tricky question to answer. I just wanted to get an indication of your current pay expectations. And they'll go, oh I'm not really sure, like maybe $85,000 or $90,000. And I go, that's great, it doesn't actually matter what your answer is here, you won't have done yourself a disservice at all. It's just so that I know where to offer you a role, where to pitch the information, because if we're above or below that I want to make sure we're on the same page. And so just reassuring them because it really doesn't change what we'll be offering someone because we're offering it based on their expertise, not based on their experience, not based on how well they were able to negotiate. Because the last thing I want for my team to be chatting about who negotiated better. And so that just allows when you're doing that slide, if you go back to the YouTube video that Ben was showing before around one of those slides is around the reward structure that has six levels. And so it means you can highlight into the level at which they were expecting and say, we can absolutely achieve that. This is how we achieve that.

Ben Lynch: It's a really great point because Clinic owners are scared to ask that question about what, you know, essentially, what do you want to learn? Yeah. Because what if they say a big number? And part of that is helping educate the team member or prospective team member on what it would take for that number to be a reality. The point is, there's never a no, it's how can we? Well, that would look like doing X amount of impact hours or billable hours or, you know, revenue per week or clients per week. We find the right language and framing. So, they go, ah, okay, well, at the moment, maybe I'm seeing just a little bit less than that. So, that's really achievable. So, yeah, really great point around being able to ask those questions at the front end of a team member's journey is actually, I think it gives you a solid, you know, foundation for future conversations, right?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are so scared of that 150,000 or 120,000. And I think it's okay in an interview to say, thanks so much. That's probably a little bit above where we were expecting. We're sort of looking more in this range, but let me go and have a look at it and come back to you. It just gives you that time to think and you might not be changing it. But then you may come back on that zoom call and say, Hey, look, we've had a look at it and this is the highest that this is the range. And I understand that might not be within what your goals are and they can go, yeah, no. Or they can go, actually, yeah, I was just hoping for the best.

Ben Lynch: It's great, great to ask those questions, explore the uncomfortable things at the very beginning. Well, to sort of draw a close and round out this conversation, we then get to enrolment, you know, where they become a team member. This is the personalised welcome that they get. This document is certainly part of that transition between selling them the career, not the year. And then we get into the personalised prompt. What have you found useful in that time between saying, welcome, you are the successful candidate. We're so thrilled to welcome you to the team and day one. What have you found useful in that sort of, it could be a couple of days, could be a couple of weeks, could be a couple of months. So what have you found useful?

Hannah Dunn: We do, we start our 0 to 100 with them, which is our onboarding document of those first 100 days. So that means that we're reaching out, we're trying to get documents uploaded and getting anything we need. So there's that point of contact. But we also, in the week before they start, so if that means there's only been a week, it's straight away. If it's been three months, it might be, we might do it in the middle. but we send them a welcome gift, something to say thanks so much, we're so excited to have you coming on board, which often gets really rave reviews as well because people often get flowers on exit as you say at CM, but we want to get them on entry. And just, it depends on, I think individually if it's longer than four weeks then we need to be reaching out a little bit more, But within those four weeks, just having that point of contact with Louise, our operations manager, who's getting those documents, and then the flowers, and also me just saying to them, like, I can't wait to get the signed contract back, because then I get to announce it to the team on Slack. Let me know. And just letting them know that these things are happening, that the team's finding out about them. Yeah.

Ben Lynch: That's great. Creating that clarity and certainty because it is so uncertain at times, like I'm leaving this other job potentially, or if they're a new graduate, definitely a lot of uncertainty. You're just mapping out, here's what's going to happen specifically in an email. So it's written, they can reference back at it and making yourself available through phone call or Zoom to be able to talk through it. Yeah, really cool. I love the zero to 100, their first hundred days. onboarding starts as soon as possible. We want to make them feel like they're part of the team as soon as possible, rather than waiting a month or three months to feel like they're part of the team.

Hannah Dunn: If we have a culture day in the middle there, we'll invite them to that too.

Ben Lynch: Oh, great. So like a team day, like an in-service half day, full day, where you're working on something, you'll extend the invitation even before official day one.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Ben Lynch: Yeah. Great. I like that. Well, there's some really great ways here for people to level up their recruitment. You know, in having a couple of conversations recently with clinic owners, I've had the blinding flash of the obvious. And that is these folks that have had challenges with their culture, with their existing team. We've all experienced it. Yes. And we'll continue to experience it. How many of them can look back on their recruitment process for that team member and go, there were probably some flags or some things that I could have done differently that might have led to me, you know, screening this person out and giving it to someone else or taking a little bit longer. And so much of culture, like it just starts at this part of the team member's journey is having a rigorous process for screening the right candidates, which sounds like a luxury for folks that are just like, I don't even have applicants. So, you know, where do I start? And there's a number of ideas here in this conversation. The idea being, how do you build a ecosystem, an ecosystem, if I was talking correctly, I believe, my English.

Hannah Dunn: I'm not the one to pick you up on it.

Ben Lynch: an ecosystem. My English teacher made me read the Australian newspaper for an entire term to try and improve my English. She said it improved my English, but I don't think it did. Anyway, that's a sidebar. It's about building an ecosystem for you in 12 months or 24 months or 36 months when you need to make that recruit that higher and not just putting the job ad up and hoping you've out word-smithed someone to get the right candidate. So I think that's perhaps the key message that I have for those listening or watching. And what is your key message or key insight, Hannah, for those that want to do their recruitment better, want to grow their clinic by adding more ideal team members?

Hannah Dunn: I think on the other end of that, I think it's a repetition of being present. So even if you haven't built that ecosystem yet, just getting those ads on every platform that you can. Don't worry about how many people are going to see it because they're generally not going to see the ad on repeat. They're going to see it once or twice in those spaces. And so just that repetition and flogging it essentially.

Ben Lynch: It's a great point because we didn't talk about that earlier. So many people will say, oh, I don't want, you know, I don't want to seem like I'm overbearing or I'm annoying people. It's like, you've got a pretty big problem to solve and it's recruitment. And a lot of people don't even know that you've got a job offering available. So that is great. A great place to wrap up our conversation about recruitment. You can head along to clinicmastery.com. We've been making a few changes to the pages where we upload these podcast recordings with show notes and timestamps and transcripts and assets as well that you can download that relate to it. So just to make it a more comprehensive experience as a listener of the podcast, If you haven't already, we would also love a review on whatever platform you use. I think 70% of people use the Apple podcast player, so jump on there and give us a review. We'd so appreciate it. Hannah, until next week, thank you so much.

Hannah Dunn: I look forward to next week's outfit.

Ben Lynch: Yes. I don't know where you go from a suit and a bow tie. I haven't worn this in about two years because I found in my pocket, as you often do, the suit jacket is when we went to the 2022 Telstra Business Awards. We have a team photo here. So that's how long it's been since I've worn a suit. All right. We'll put it into this episode and we'll see you on another episode very soon. Bye bye.

Hannah Dunn: Perfect. Thanks. Bye.