Ben Lynch: G'day, good people. Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic podcast by Clinic Mastery. Here's what's coming up inside of this episode. What are some of the questions you go to in an interview process?

Bec Clare: What type of leadership style do you prefer or thrive in?

Ben Lynch: I think one of the most overlooked areas for clinic owners when it comes to recruitment is their join our team page.

Bec Clare: A flag for me is, I think we've all been in an interview like this, but someone actually has no questions.

Ben Lynch: Do you set people up to succeed or wait to see how they go by pre-framing?

Bec Clare: Hiring in desperation is the big one. You're so desperate, you need a role field, you've got clients on the priority list or wait list. It's about always recruiting.

Ben Lynch: I've certainly seen a number of applicants send through a cover letter or their application via email and it's just screaming chat GPT.

Bec Clare: For the first thing, take out the long dash.

Ben Lynch: This episode will be right up your Allie if you're looking to grow your therapist team. We're diving into your recruitment ecosystem. And trust me, you'll want to hear Beck's take on how to get more applicants for your job opening. Plus stick around for when we discuss our top five must ask questions in the interview process. Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by AllieClinics.com. If you're the kind of clinic owner who loves to feel organised and stay ahead of the chaos, you'll love Allie. Think of it as your digital clone. It's the single source of truth for all your clinics, policies, systems, and training. Test it for free at AllieClinics.com. And in other news, applications are now open to work with us one-on-one at Clinic Mastery. If you want support to grow your clinic and bring your vision to life, just email helloatclinicmastery.com with the subject line podcast and we'll line up a time to chat. All right, let's get into the episode. It is episode 334. Welcome to the episode. I'm again joined by Bec Clare, director and owner of Physio West in Adelaide, team of 33. Have I got it right?

Bec Clare: You have. Potentially not by the end of the week though.

Ben Lynch: Oh, okay. For the moment, we're all good. We're all good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accurate for now. Every time I go to say the number of team members that you've got, it's like, no, Ben, you're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. So I feel good. I feel good. I got it right. About time I got it right, I think. You did. You did. And that happens to be the point of our conversation today, which is all about recruitment, bringing on more ideal team members. Obviously, we've got the nurturing and the pathways to retain those talented team members. But so many clinics have a challenge on the front end, attracting the quantity and the quality of applicants. So I thought we should unpack your recent experience, what you're finding is working, what mistakes you've made, and also your observations because you work with such a large community base, especially on the practice management front, recruitment there, but also on the therapy front as well, and you work with business owners. But here's an interesting insight. I had a look at our YouTube channel recently, and I think the most popular video, somewhere up in the top ten, is this video that Peter Flynn did, which is like the top nine interview questions that you could ask. I thought that might be a really good place for us to start. Even though the interview is such a small but important screening component, I thought it'd be interesting to ask you what are some of the questions you love going to in the interview process as you try and screen and identify, trying to like read the tea leaves, is this the right person? What are some of the questions you go to in an interview process?

Bec Clare: I'd love to unpack the interview process and we'll do that perhaps a little later on.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, let's do that. Stay tuned.

Bec Clare: because the whole process forms which questions you ask and when. One of my favourites, and I got this one from Shane Davis, was why, insert clinic name, why PhysioWest and why now? What makes us the place that you want to come and work for? You want to invest your time, your energy, your emotions, all of that. Why us and why now? Really insightful answers come from that one. That's probably my top interview question. However, I perhaps, the initial stage of getting to know someone, I actually say to them, it's not an interview, it's a catch up. We're going to go and have a coffee or we're going to go for a walk. We're actually just going to get to know one another because really for me, it's about whether there's that spark and alignment and you can feel it pretty quickly.

Ben Lynch: Uh-huh. You like to run a bit more off the vibes, how you feel that connection is going or not?

Bec Clare: Yeah, I hate to sound woo-woo, but it's all about the vibes.

Ben Lynch: Well, it makes sense. We've got to work with these people. They've got to be people we get along with and asking questions is a way to unpack that, to break the ice and kind of dig a little bit deeper. I love that point because one of the questions that I found really useful especially when you're creating a shortlist or you're at that shortlist stage, is to pick up the phone and it's somewhere between a five to ten minute quick screener. And the question goes to the effect of, you know, hey Beck, it's Ben here from Clink Mastery. Thank you so much for applying for the role here. Just curious, what led you to apply for this role specifically? And the amount of times that I've had people come back and say, oh, yeah, what was the role again? Or some version of indifference towards it, they can't remember it, which tells me they've applied for several other roles and this was just one of the roles. is really good and you're like, okay, that's an interesting start versus someone that goes, oh, I just read your job ad. It spoke to me. It was amazing, et cetera, et cetera. So it's a similar question to the one that you just posed there of like, why us and why now? So, I like that. That's a great way to get going. Let's stay on the questions for a moment before we zoom out to the whole process because there's a lot of nuance here. Obviously, if you're hiring a practice manager compared to a therapist, you're going to approach it differently. So, are there any other questions that you found particularly useful that you find yourself going back to regularly?

Bec Clare: Absolutely. Do you mind if I share screen? I've got a couple of different… Go for it. Let's do it.

Ben Lynch: I've got a few show-and-tells as well. So good.

Bec Clare: Okay. So these are our phone interview questions. So Ben, as you say, this is also really helpful when you're interviewing for an admin team member role. You want to understand how they present on the phone, even the subtle things about how they answer the phone. If they've applied for a job and you say, hey, I'm going to touch base with you by phone at some point on Tuesday, do they answer the phone professionally? Are they expecting your call or is it, hey, and you're like, I don't even know who I'm talking to right now. So it's how they answer the phone. Ben, your question's on here. What is it about the role that attracted your attention? Yes.

Ben Lynch: Oh, cool.

Bec Clare: You made it. Made the cut. What do you know about PhysioWest? What are you passionate about and what gets you out of bed? Where do you see yourself in five years? How do you handle stress and pressure? Why did you leave your last job?

Ben Lynch: Yes. In a similar vein, if they're still in their current job, I love asking, what's leading you to make a change or seek a change in your career at this point. And it's interesting to hear how people talk about their current job or their current boss or, um, you know, are they diplomatic or not, um, and try and unpack it a little bit. I love that question.

Bec Clare: Absolutely. And I really take from this sort of where is their, where is their mindset, their attitude at? Have they perhaps come, have they, I'll say, been burnt or something like that? Or are they in a toxic relationship? But how are they, more importantly, how are they dealing with a toxic workplace if that's where they're coming from. I'm looking for someone who can provide constructive feedback on either their current role that they're looking to move on from or a previous role versus perhaps some negativity around that. What are you looking for in your next role? I love this one. What type of leadership style do you prefer or thrive in?

Ben Lynch: That's awesome. I had a similar one down for today, which was, tell me about a leader that you've worked with or for that you have high praise for. It could be it was the netball coach, it was the cricket coach, it was my school teacher, it was the university lecturer, it was at this previous workspace. It doesn't matter. I just want to know, are there the traits that you really admire? I've asked it in a similar way. Tell me about a team that you've been part of before that is super memorable for all the right reasons or was a high achieving team. Just tell me about the dynamics. I love that question.

Bec Clare: Oh, I love the iteration of that, Ben. That's going to sneaky edits in there.

Ben Lynch: That's going to stick. That's collabing.

Bec Clare: Um, why do you want to work here? There's sort of obviously got a similar theme. Um, I love this one. If you could wave a magic wand and change anything in the world, what would it be? I love looking for the, particularly for a creative role. I love looking for something outside the box here. Can someone think on their feet? And then the, tell me about yourself. I actually really prefer, walk me through your resume. Walk me through your experience. Give, give me some color to what I'm seeing on paper.

Ben Lynch: Interesting. Cause CVs are black and white.

Bec Clare: That's good.

Ben Lynch: Absolutely. I had a similar one, which I've seen a number of different people reference over time. The framing is, we understand that connection is the foundation for doing really good work together. When we understand one another, we're able to have the tough conversations when they come up. We're able to do it in a respectful way. We're able to understand your lens on the world. And we do that through a number of different ways, whether it's our goal setting, and we call them desire statements, whether it's through some of the vulnerability or connection activities that we do in person at our retreats or in-person events, or whether it's some of the personality profiling tools that we use as self-reflections to help understand how we can help one another be in more flow in our work. We love understanding the human because you're going to spend so much of your week here. So, I use that as context to then say, you know, tell me about some of the key decisions you've made in your life that have led you to this point. I literally asked this a few weeks ago when we made a new recruit in and it was really interesting to see where they went with it. The example was moving out of home and pursuing a new job, and that was a real pivotal point for a whole bunch of context. That just led to a really nice connection on a human level, because you tend to jump straight into the role, right? What's your experience? How would you handle these scenarios? What have you done before? Yeah, just to nuance the human element. So I like the way you've done that as well as like a blend. Tell me about yourself and walk me through, talk me through your resume.

Bec Clare: Ben, I think you actually also just summarised how we were talking just a moment ago about I'm all about the vibes in an interview. I think you actually just said it more eloquently. It's about connection. And particularly now in a world where there's so much AI and so much tech that can do the do, I'm actually wanting to connect with humans in our business and understand what makes them tick. For me as a leader, I also want to come to a workplace where I can connect with our team and have a really good time with them and them then connect with clients. And we know that circle, which is if our role as directors and leaders is to look after our team, our team will look after our clients. Our clients will take care of the business, and guess what? The business looks after us. That's my focus, and that's what I want to achieve at an interview or a coffee catch-up is, can I connect with this human? Because by connecting, they're demonstrating how they might connect with our community and our patients. More importantly, when perhaps some challenges come up or I'm needing to have a challenging conversation, I have a connection with that person, which means I can have that conversation.

Ben Lynch: That's what I'm looking for. I love when you mentioned before as well about not referring to it necessarily as an interview, but really a conversation for us to understand one another and get to know one another, whether this is the right fit for you and whether you're the right fit for us. And you had a brilliant final question there. You've just stopped sharing screen, which I want to come back to in a moment because this is a really good one. And I think a missed opportunity for a lot of clinic owners. Because you had a really great question there, which was around… I've got, now it's essentially over to you. Shane Davis always says this. He's like, I'll just hand the mic over to you. I'm sure you've got questions of us. You want to make sure we're a fit for you. So what questions do you have about us and working here? I think that's a really great way to invite them. And you also, it's interesting to hear the questions that they have. Do they lead with like, what's your leave policy? there already. I've had that happen. I've had that happen.

Bec Clare: Yes.

Bec Clare: So the question is, is there anything about the role of the workplace you would like to ask me? A flag for me is, I think we've all been in an interview like this, but someone actually has no questions.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Bec Clare: There should be something from our conversation that has sparked something. The really creative interviews that I've been a part of or where I feel really connected to someone is where they say, so tell me about how you like to lead or tell me more about the direction. Where is the business going? You've asked me about my next five years, but what does the next five years look like for Physio West? I love the level of interest that person is taking. There's just some brilliant questions we can be asked in reverse and I think that's actually the key to a good interview.

Ben Lynch: So, do you set people up to succeed or wait to see how they go by pre-framing? Hey, when we catch up on Tuesday next week, I've got a number of questions so we can understand one another. And if you have some questions, bring them along too. Do you proactively do that or you just wait to see how they go?

Bec Clare: Yeah, probably. It's subtle in the wording. I say, hey, I really would love to catch up next Tuesday. I'm keen to know a little bit more about what you're looking for and the ideal environment for you. And equally, I can share what we have on offer and how we are moving forward and how this role came to be, really. So, I'm hoping that by using that language, they then go, I've got some questions about what the direction looks like or what my role might look like. So, I'm hoping that they tease that out of it because particularly when we're looking for clinicians, a patient's not going to come in and say, hey, can you ask me a whole bunch of questions and I've got questions for you. It's sort of in the nuance and I'm wanting them to be able to build connection and I'm wanting to see how they do that.

Ben Lynch: Great point, especially in healthcare. It's all about connection, right? With our teammates and with our clients. The questions has popped back in my head because you referenced it subtly there around ChatGPT almost being the opposite of connection, perhaps in robot land. It is such a wonderful tool and we'll talk about that in a moment. I've certainly seen a number of applicants send through a cover letter or their application by email. And it's just screaming chat GPT i'm like this is great that you're using this tech but the way you're using it is just so. obviously poor because you've probably just put in the first prompt and taken the first response. And we actually need to work through iterations to train it and use it. How do you go about that when you see an application come through and there's just dead giveaways at this point that it's ChatGPT?

Bec Clare: For the first thing, take out the long dash. That's the really glaringly obvious one, right?

Bec Clare: It's great. I'm with you, Ben, in that I love team members who are leaning into AI because it also means that they're a little more responsive to change and how we're wanting to move as a clinic. So I lean into it. It's more around, as you say, have they taken the first response from the prompt and just copy and pasted that? Can I see any iteration or any nuance that's more directed towards our clinic? A chat GPT response can actually reference maybe some of the values of our clinic. That means that they've prompted it in a way that is a little more sophisticated. Yeah. Part of our interview process is an online form, a Google form, which talks a lot about our values and asks them to respond. And I know a number of members who are listening to this probably do something fairly similar. The number of chat GPT responses I'm now getting back on that Google form, I had to sit with myself and go, should I render this part of the process Just irrelevant now that there's ChatGPT or can I finesse it in some sort of way? I now pre-frame two candidates who make it through to that stage. I say, I know that ChatGPT and Gemini and other AI platforms out there are amazing to help you complete this. I want to get to know you and I can spot ChatGPT, so please don't use it.

Ben Lynch: Yes. Okay. You're asking just blanket no.

Bec Clare: On the Google form.

Ben Lynch: On the Google form. Yes.

Bec Clare: I know that you're welcome to use that and you'll probably use it in your role here with us, but for the purposes of this Google form, I'd really ask that it's you who responds.

Ben Lynch: So this gets us to zoom out to the overall process that you mentioned before. Maybe if we go from the Google form outward or inward, however you want to look at this, where does a Google form live? Is it on a join our team page? Let's build out this process. And ultimately I want to speak to getting more applicants. and getting better applicants. Because I think for so many clinic owners, that is the critical piece. They go okay with the interview process and steps and questions, but hopefully there's some useful insights there for you as you listen or watch us over here on YouTube. But let's build out this process. It can look a number of different ways, but what are some of the key ingredients in your process?

Bec Clare: It really depends on the role that we're interviewing for and where they fit in the process. When we speak to more and better applicants, it's about always recruiting. So it's about being present on platforms. I know I learned from Mel Webber a number of years ago and she said, even if I'm not recruiting, I dedicate a few hours a week to recruitment so that it's an evergreen process. And I've taken a leaf out of her book and it's just something that lives time-blocked in my diary every week just to be present on socials, LinkedIn, wherever it might be to get more applicants because what I want is a pool of applicants even when I'm not recruiting so that when I am, they're there and I'm not looking for, I'm looking at them, not for them.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Bec Clare: And we've already done part of the screening process. So I think the distinction of our recruitment process to having more and better quality are probably two, I view them personally as two separate strategies.

Ben Lynch: Yep. Great point. If I share my screen now, a little show and tell as well, here's a reasonable visual way to consider it. This was the recruitment ecosystem that we came up with back in 2021 to help people think more comprehensively about their recruitment efforts rather than, I have a need, I post a job ad on a job board and see how it goes, you spend a thousand bucks, to that reframe of, you're always recruiting. And that doesn't mean you've always got a job ad out, but you're doing activities that first create awareness. Essentially, for those listening in, we've got concentric circles, smaller heading out to larger as the visual. If we start on the outside with the intention to move to the inner circle, quite literally to join your team, we're starting on the outside with awareness. The more people that know you, The more reach you've got and the potential applicants you then have. I've been rereading a number of books from Byron Sharp. This is more along the lines of how consumers buy, but the books are called How Brands Grow. And if we simplify us as clinic owners in the service-based industry, it's about getting more new clients, serving those clients, and having enough team members to serve those clients. So there's really two key levers is having enough team and having enough clients. of the principles I think carry across in terms of how clinics can grow is that what is your pipeline for new team or talent to come into your system? Now, you don't need to grow to a size of 33 or 333. I often reference the point of Dan Gibbs, co-founder of Clinic Mastery, having three to four practitioners having a brilliant clinic that suited him and then Shane Davis having like 15 clinic locations, two shoe stores and a sports medicine centre. It's all about creating the clinic that you love and is your version of success. But nonetheless, we need to attract quality team members. And it starts with getting awareness that you even exist. You could think of this in a marketing sense is like getting leads. So Beck, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're essentially creating a database. You'd use a spreadsheet or maybe you use a CRM type of tool like MailChimp. where you're collecting these email addresses, phone numbers, people who've been interested in the past or in the current process because we can stay connected with them into the future and potentially they join our team at some point in the future. Is that what you're looking to do? Just add a few more layers before we go down this sort of line through evaluation, consideration, and enrolment. How do you approach, what are some of the strategies that you do to generate the awareness and interest side of things?

Bec Clare: Absolutely. Really, we're wanting to cast the largest net and have that large amount of awareness. The subtle thing about that is we've had two instances this year. She's currently on our team. I interviewed this candidate two years ago. She was a new grad. At the time, it was a really competitive field. We only had two roles available and she'd missed out. Not because she wasn't the right candidate for us. There were just people who were ahead of her in the pack, right? And it's hard as new grads. You don't really know what you're going to get. We stayed in contact. She continued to follow our socials. We kept the relationship really warm. She joined her job, stayed there two years, got the itch, and reached out to us before applying for anywhere else. She said, hey, I know I wasn't successful last time. Any chance there's a role become available? I'm still really keen. went back through the interview process and now she's on our team. And it was the right time for her. She was always the right sort of candidate, it just wasn't the right time. And so, we want to keep those options open. So, absolutely, a spreadsheet of people who have either applied before and then some notes around how they went through the process. Sarah's was always green. It was just that we only had a certain number of roles available. Now, there's so much more investment on her part as well by joining us when she's been given almost that second chance. Equal for us, we've seen the growth that she's had and we're celebrating that. So wanting to have, be able to capture all of those leads and whether it be in a CRM or just a spreadsheet or a folder in your inbox where you put all of the candidates and you rank them, it can be really quite simple. And it's really about having a relationship where you can approach them. You can search for them on LinkedIn and reconnect with them at some point into the future. They may not join you, but they also might advocate for you and say, look, I had a really great experience. I wasn't successful in the role, but my friend is now looking.

Ben Lynch: It's a really great point. I think at our recent consultant training internally, just like you do CPD in your clinic, we get all the consultants at CM together on a weekly basis. We have a central theme that we talk through and teach what are the best practices and also what are we hearing and seeing in the community of people that are crushing it in various domains and how can we exchange that knowledge and then take it back to the members we work with. And one of it was around how a lot of clinics are actually using their social media more for recruitment, seeing that more as a recruitment tool than it is for patient education or helping build a potential database of clients. It's actually therapists that are most interested to follow along and see what it's like to work at your clinic. And for so many clinic owners, they can feel like, oh, I'm not sure I want to show that side, or I don't want to put myself out there, or I'm not that special. What do I have to share? And I see some of these other clinics that have got amazing socials. And so often we actually hear, It's the clinics just showing what they're currently doing that resonates with therapists. Like it doesn't need to be this whiz, bang, beautiful thing. But like, oh, you know, I saw and have followed your CPD sessions or how you do mentoring or your team culture days, whatever it may be. It was just documenting it. It wasn't trying to, you know, make this high production social media account. So I'd encourage folks that are listening in, how can your, organic social media, just shine a light on what you're currently doing because prospective team members are watching.

Bec Clare: It's the number one recruitment tool for us. People are, I've seen your socials. I really love it. I want to join this sort of clinic. I really love what you're doing with this CPD. I love your team connection. You look like you're having fun. So whether it be, if you're a small team too, we don't have to be a team of 33 where we're showcasing what we are. If you're a small team and you have really lovely dinners together, a couple of times a year, document that because people are also going to be attracted, depending on their personality type, to a more intimate team environment where they can really connect with you. Team size is also quite important to a number of prospective team members. Yeah, that's a really good point. Advertising what you're great at.

Ben Lynch: Really good point. In your marketing of PhysioWest, do you tend to recruit? Do you tend to go reasonably broad? You're just trying to showcase as many different elements, or do you really try and hang your hat on a certain element that you feel is more competitive in the market and attracts people? An example might be, I know a few clinics that really do pride themselves on the mentoring and training support, the sort of clinical excellence, and so they spend a lot of time developing assets and resources to put out to the market to say, here's a taste of what it's like to work with us, rather than us just say we've got good mentoring, because everyone else says that. They actually want to substantiate it with some resources or assets. So that's just an example of maybe going deep on one area that they want to attract the people that love learning and career development. What's your approach, Bain?

Bec Clare: We would have two areas that we target from a recruitment perspective onto our socials. We weight one more heavily than the other based on who we're trying to attract and the values that that person holds. So the first and more weighty piece is our connection. So we're really showcasing some of the fun things we do in clinic or our team days. So team days, we have a couple of team members who are allocated to B-roll. So they are getting B-roll, they're getting stills, they're capturing all of the fun moments. And we have a catalogue because we run four of those a year. We have a catalogue of stuff that we can basically put on repeat every week that has come from those days.

Ben Lynch: And you're literally just capturing this on a mobile phone.

Bec Clare: Just documenting on a mobile phone. We have two team members. We actually ask, we post ahead of the team day and say, anything you capture at team day, please pop in this Google Drive folder. And it goes to our social media team or team member who's looking after that. So everyone just uploads just from a phone. Sometimes if I'm doing a presentation or a team member is, we might. hook up the road mics, but that's only been in the last six months when we got a little bit more sophisticated. But prior to that, it's just grab some fun footage. And then second, we weight our PD and our mentoring. So demonstrating, and again, that's usually just stills and someone who's in the room just takes a quick snap of the physios doing some. manual therapy together or using our VOLD tech. We're showcasing some of the tech, but the PD and the fact that we are collaborating together to be better together. That's the second piece.

Ben Lynch: It's a really interesting way to maybe come back to some first principles when thinking about recruitment is When I'm screening for this applicant, what am I trying to look for? What have I learned from mistakes in the past that perhaps I missed asking those questions, taking that action, that I want to put in here? I'll come back to the humble, hungry, smart in a moment. But also on the front end, when we're putting it out there, what is the ideal applicant that we would want? Perhaps it's someone that is continually learning and developing and applying. They're on the front edge of some of the tools and techniques that are available. And so how does what we put out to the world speak to those types of folks? That they would see that and be like, that seems like me. Coming back to the humble hungry smart, which is the three criteria from Pat Lencioni, he talks about the ideal team player, which has just resonated a lot. They're humble, they're willing to acknowledge other people in the process of succeeding. They're also willing to say, I fell short, that was on me. They're hungry in the sense that they've got good work ethic. I think you can screen for some of these things in a therapist sense by, tell me what a busy week looks like, how many appointments or how many clients on your caseload. You get a sense for where that stacks up with your current team. And then smart comes back to, yeah, their level of commitment to CPD. It looks at what have they done to invest in themselves? And that's also a great question. Like, what have you invested in yourself? There was a great question that I picked up from, I think it was Dan Martell. You know, what's a book you've recently read to advance your life or career? I want to see evidence of you being smart. And so I'm going to ask questions like that. What I'd encourage folks listening in who maybe have taken all of these questions, madly written them down and like, I'm going to ask them all. That's not the intent. The intent is, what are you looking for? What are you trying to find in the marketplace? And what questions could you ask? What parts of your process could you change so that that ideally comes to the surface if it's there? That's essentially what we're trying to do with our screening and then our marketing is trying to attract that.

Bec Clare: Absolutely. Coming to the questions that we've gone through, the temptation is to ask all of them. Pick two, max three, and build a conversation around that. It shouldn't just be ask question, receive response, right? That's very robotic.

Ben Lynch: Oh yes, I've been part of those and I've done those early days. Very robotic and awkward.

Bec Clare: Oh my! Build a conversation around it. I'm so glad you referenced Pat Lencioni because part of our recruitment process, which I'm happy to share screen and walk through the documented process that we have, is exactly that. Hungry, humble, smart. Subtle things around if we go out for a coffee, and I shout the coffee, how do they It's not just about thanking me. Okay, great. That's nice. But how do they treat the team member who serves us from the cafe that we've gone to? How do they interact with those around them? Sometimes I'll leave someone just a couple of minutes behind schedule when I'm due to meet with them for a face-to-face interview to see whether they've made a connection with the client care team member who's on or have they come in and then sat in the corner of the welcome space. I'm really looking for someone who comes in and who's curious, who maybe stands at the desk and has a chat to Bodhi or to Jess. I'm looking for those subtle things when I'm interviewing someone.

Ben Lynch: It all just builds the sort of mental picture here for your decision making. It's not like you're weighting this significantly, but it all just adds up. Because some people can be super shy when they're in new territory and they take a little bit to warm into things, but you're just building this image of this person.

Bec Clare: Our team, Ben, to that point, are actually really involved in the process. So I will say to our team on client care, I'll say, look, Ben's coming in for a quick catch up today. They know what that means. A quick catch up today. I'd really love for you to make them feel welcome. Feel free to have a chat, get to know them. I'd love any feedback. So when we do have a really shy or perhaps a little bit introverted applicant, They're already made to feel really warm and it's, to be honest, it's how our client care team members welcome anyone into our space, whether that be an applicant, a patient or a supplier, anyone. It's about the whole vibe of our clinic.

Ben Lynch: Do you do the social interview? I think that's what Bid called it. I think Mick does it at the pub. I think Bid does it at the cafe. A version of getting some of your team members actually to host maybe a 15-minute interview, mindful taking them away from their core role during the day, but this new incoming team member is going to work with them and to be able to have that connection, to have that validation from the rest of the team that, yeah, this person could fit right in here, just adds to it. Also, it gives them a sense of significance in playing a role, albeit small, in identifying, validating that person. Have you done that before?

Bec Clare: How's that played out? Absolutely. It's a key part of our process. There's a couple of iterations. We might do a coffee shop, a coffee cat shop, and a couple of team members. It depends on the role. A couple of team members take them out for a coffee. More recently, probably over the last year to two years, we've had the team member come into the clinic and immerse themselves. We call it the peek behind the curtain. They come in and they get to shadow and they get to meet a couple of members of the team and that's more our social part of it. They get to spend, we ask them to spend two to three hours with us. They get to view the role that they're potentially going to fill, so they get to understand what the duties are and what it looks like, what the pace of the clinic is like, who they'd be working alongside, are the clients their ideal client. I hate to get six months down the track and be like, oh, I didn't know that I'd be treating these types of clients. They get that peek behind the curtain before they even start. Um, and it's a really awesome part for our team to be part of. And I say to the team, I want you to help us build this team. I want you to help us find people you want to work with. Let's build the culture together. The team members are so invested. Then when say, Ben, you're successful in the role, we can celebrate that person coming on board. And whoever it might be that was part of that process is like, I'm here to help Ben thrive. What can I do? I was part of selecting Ben.

Ben Lynch: That's great. I love that. Getting the team members a part of it, even if it's one team member. Again, to those clinic owners that are early on in their journey or have a really small team, it only needs to be one other person that can be a champion here of this new folk. I think one of the most overlooked areas for clinic owners when it comes to recruitment is their join our team page, because that is the forever asset that lives, can be easily iterated and updated with some of these assets, videos, photos, downloads that display what it's like to work here. I would imagine most folks that are applying for a role will have a little peruse on the website to get to know you. Ideally, they would, because that would make them a good applicant. Or they've actually applied on your Join Our Team page. So, number one, if you don't have that page, make it happen. Number two, If we look at what are the best doing, how does your page stack up? Does it clearly communicate exactly what it's like and make it super easy for them to leave their details or book in? You use maybe an online booking from your patient management system to book in with you as the clinic director. Maybe it's a 15 minute screener at any point in the year. interested to know what it's like to work with us, book a 15-minute chat with our director. We'll answer your questions. Here's what you can expect. Boom, boom, boom, boom. If you want to know what our CPD or training's like, here's a video or here's a PDF download. If you want to know what our career pathways are at the clinic, here's a PDF or here's a video. How can we stack this page so that it just represents us terrifically well? And so, they're my bits of advice for folks who are listening in. Have that page and refine that page. Bec, what have you seen work really well when it comes to these sort of assets that you can share, whether it's PDFs or videos or images or pages that help build that awareness and build that interest in working with you, whether it's things you've done or you've seen other clinics do?

Bec Clare: Firstly, I absolutely love the notion of being out of book in a 15-minute chat with the director. I'd love that, Ben. That's going to go in our process.

Ben Lynch: Oh, nice. I did it actually with Marion, a long-term client at Clinic Mastery, because one of her passions and skill sets was coaching and the personal development as a speech. and they have terrific training processes, and I get to see a lot, so do you. I know a lot of people have some version of this. She had terrific, terrific training. If people knew about this, they would join your team. How can they book in with you and get an experience, you know, I have that saying, which is tell them, show them, involve them.

Bec Clare: Yes.

Ben Lynch: Ideally, to tell them is good, but with ChatGBT, everyone's a brilliant writer now, which is to tell them, put it out in words and images. Show them makes it even more powerful. Like, can I see a video of this? An image? Can I see some of the other assets or resources? But involve them, you mentioned it before, for a therapist, shadowing is so powerful. The vibe that you're in the clinic, the way it flows, hopefully the energy like between the clients and the practitioners and the admin, you're just like, this is a place I want to be in because I've physically experienced it. Now that's not always achievable. to shadow, but a version might be drop in via Zoom to our CPD session to experience what it's like. And hey, you can put this on your CPD hours, but you get to see what it's like to be here as part of this team, the questions, the challenges, the dynamism. So we're like, they need to book in with you and actually experience what this coaching side is like, because you're so brilliant at it. And that became the call to action. And so it works really well. I just invite clinic owners listening in. What is the thing that you find really good at or that you pride yourself on and how could people actually get a taste of that and experience it? Anyway, okay, that's good. Well, I'm glad that might be of use to PhysioWest.

Bec Clare: Oh, absolutely. I can just picture Marion absolutely thriving in that. That's brilliant. Look, what do I see the best do? What have we tried and what do we do? Testimonials. In healthcare, we have to be a little careful around testimonials from time to time. We can be creative about how we use them. For your join your team,

Ben Lynch: I would be leveraging- And just to be clear, and sorry to interrupt, you mean from your team? Testimonials from your team? From your team.

Bec Clare: Yeah, absolutely. So I include them, yeah, from our existing team, from, we call them PhysioWest alumni, those that have moved on and we continue to have a really great relationship with. Maybe they've taken a different career path, but we've been part of their life and part of their journey. We showcase them on our website as well. If you are a small team. and maybe you don't have those testimonials, you could actually use patient testimonials here. What impact do our team have and how can you demonstrate the vibe or the culture that you're creating? It's the perfect way to use a patient testimonial without, say, the clinical part of it, but what is their experience with you? And what we're wanting to do is have someone resonate with that level of pride.

Ben Lynch: I love it. I think it's very appropriate. It's a great point. How many, you know, say Google reviews do we see of clinics where they're talking about the experience that they had with the team, not the clinical outcomes, but saying, you know, the team was so friendly, welcoming, they ran on time, they knew my name, you know, just these little things that show, yeah, this is a really great place to work. Um, I did this, yes, with a, uh, physio recently, Steph, they had a team member moving on, but it was under really good circumstances, they were relocating to another city. And let's get a video testimony of what it's like to work here. And that asset sits on there, join our team page now. which is going to live forever. It's such a worthwhile investment, even if it's just done on phone. You could get a videographer in to do it high polish and pay $500 to $1,000 to do that. But these things, they last for such a long period of time, they're worth investing in. You can easily throw $1,000 onto a job board like Seek that's going to be up for four weeks, Well, why not invest a thousand bucks to get some quality images or videos of your team that are going to last four to five years at least. So I definitely have that as part of my recruitment budget in the year moving forward is can we capture some of these things in a reasonably polished manner and put them up on our join our team page because they're going to live there for ages and service into the future.

Bec Clare: Absolutely, absolutely.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, I love that. The testimonial is a really great one of your team, what it's like, the CPD. The other one that I've seen a number of clinic owners do, and it doesn't always have the payoff, and it's a long-term play, is being open foreshadowing for students, or work experience for students, and just anybody at any time. I've seen, actually, people run this more as an evergreen play, where on their Join Our Team page, it's like, would you like to join us for CPD, or we've got CPD on these dates that are open to more than just our team. And when they come into the clinic and they see the clinic, they see the director or the therapy leaders, and they go, wow, for whatever reason, whether it's the caliber of the content, the quality of the humans, the facilities that they've got, or all three of those things and more. they go, well, this is sort of the place that I wouldn't mind working at. And whether you charge for that or it's free, opening up for CPD is a really great way to connect with folks that are lifelong learners, which I imagine most clinic owners want on their team.

Bec Clare: That's such a great way, Ben, to open the funnel to people who are not looking.

Ben Lynch: Yes, correct.

Bec Clare: The adage is that the best people are not looking.

Ben Lynch: Oh, isn't it so? Like, the best people are not looking. You know, Dan and I often talk about this and he'll say, you know, what are the chances that we have a need for a role right now and there's just the right candidate who's ready, willing and looking to fill this position in this kind of like four week to eight week period. And it's like, yeah, when you think of it like that, the numbers can be really small. Hence why we're always hiring so that we're on the radar. We've got some mental availability for these folks that when we do put it out and make it easy for them to apply, hopefully we give ourselves better odds at better quality and more quantity folks applying.

Bec Clare: Absolutely. I was in an interview just this morning where the candidate said, I genuinely was not looking. One of your team members put this ad in front of me because we're mates. I'm really happy where I am. However, they spoke so highly of your organisation that I had to come and meet with you. And I feel like it would be remiss of me not to perhaps have a conversation.

Ben Lynch: Yes. Yeah. I'm interested in some of the mistakes that you've made, and I'm sure if you're like me, the list could go on forever. There are many. And a lot of the changes that you've spoken to could probably easily go, well, what's the reverse of that? And it probably came from that place of not doing it. But what are some of the key mistakes that you've made and you see other clinic owners make when it comes to recruitment and trying to fill those positions? I'll just kick off with I think the join our team page or the lack of being able to make it easy for people to apply. for a role with you, even when you don't have a job. And then, therefore, not doing enough on your marketing side for therapists. In particular, they tend to be harder to get than, say, reception, front desk, admin. Those two strike me as really key things that people are often reactive, I have a need, I create a job, I post it, I spend a thousand bucks on the job board and then get disappointed that it doesn't work in my favour. So I'd be proactively investing in a couple of these key assets. But what other mistakes have you made that are particularly notable?

Bec Clare: Hiring in desperation is the big one. You're so desperate. You need a role filled. You've got clients on the priority list or wait list. You've got a team member who's departing. You just need someone.

Ben Lynch: And would you say to yourself now, slow down, wait for the better person, or was it like you rushed, you didn't screen, what was the mistake in going so quick?

Bec Clare: Yeah, we rushed the process and we felt like we didn't have enough candidates coming through, so therefore we had to hire that person because we didn't know when the next one might come along.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Bec Clare: And there's this scarcity and now we are very steadfast now. It's a heck yes or it's a no because we're also really confident that we're going to have more volume come through and of high quality. It takes time and it's why time blocking it every week, just a small slither into your diary about what is your strategy, whether it's this week I'm going to build the join my team page, this week I'm going to do my team testimonials, this week Build it over time. The other part of the process was ensuring that we had social proof. Candidates these days are, particularly therapists, are going to social media. You can have a great website, you can put the best C-CAD up with the use of ChatGPT to help you along the way. They're going to go to your social media. And if you haven't posted in two years, they've got no social proof as to who you are. Just documenting, whether it be a team dinner or a team catch-up or your Archies have arrived in the clinic, put something on your social media so that you are active, even if it's just once a week.

Ben Lynch: Anecdotally, I think I see a lot of folks do that. I do that. I know my wife is always like, well, let's go check them out on Instagram. It's like the default search. Yeah, this sort of generation of consumers, this is the buying behaviour, that's where people are going to check out and, oh, so-and-so, my friend follows them, or yeah, they haven't posted in a while, or this looks a little bit tacky. And I know for a lot of clinic owners that have been resistant for one reason or another, that have maybe handed over the reins to another team member to do it, so it's not them, or they've finally embraced it, have really broken through some growth hurdles, and it's not overnight, but it's so key to do it. I remember Julia, a clinic owner that I was working with for years, was like, I don't like it, it's chauvinistic, don't want to do it. It took us a little while to get her over the line, but it then led to folks applying for roles when they were out there. It then led to client inquiries. It led to partnership opportunities because they were just posting what was happening. They weren't trying to dress it up in any particular way or make it high production. It was just documenting, like you said, this is what we do. This is a reality of what it's like at this clinic.

Bec Clare: And almost the more natural the posts, the better. That's something we've learned even in the last couple of months from our socials is we went down a really polished line. Now we're drawing it back to be like, what is actually ranking and what's trending? It's the stuff that's much more raw and real. People want to connect with the real you. So photos on your smartphone of your CPD, even if it looks really awkward, post something.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, great point, great point. The CPD schedule is, you know, hopefully someone has published that at least a month in advance, maybe a year in advance, you've got the CPD schedule. Why don't you publish that on your Join Our Team page or our website or our socials, like as a little carousel? Like, you know, some people might be fearful of showing other clinics what they're doing, but there's so much in implementation execution quality that differs. It's like, why don't you just show some of those things? Again, it comes back to, we've already done this. We've already got our CPD schedule. Why isn't it up on our social media that someone could be like, oh, look at this. Have you seen how good this is? Yeah, there's so many opportunities just to reveal the things you're already doing.

Bec Clare: Absolutely.

Ben Lynch: Beck. It's already there. It's already there. I like it. Well, we've covered a lot of ground, which is really good. And I'm looking forward to unpacking this a lot more because you are the HR expert here at CM. You understand operations very well and building great culture. So we're going to continue down this line and in particular, the start of the new year, right? A lot of folks are onboarding new team members. How do you get that right? We've spoken to that. in a few recent episodes, but just while it's super fresh, we'll get on to that in the new year. And then just some of these evergreen approaches to recruitment, I think we can unpack even more in detail. Any final notes before we sign off?

Bec Clare: Make recruitment fun. You're meeting new people. Recruitment should be fun.

Ben Lynch: I like that. Yes.

Bec Clare: I'm having a great time doing it and it's really, it's showing now and it's attracting the right sort of people. So just have fun.

Ben Lynch: How good. What a great approach. And I love your point around time blocking it into the diary so that it is, you know, even if you show up half an hour every week and do something, imagine over the course of a year, what you will have accomplished. Beck, thank you so much for your insights, your practical guidance, the share screens. just add to the richness of these episodes. We continue to get really great feedback. I was speaking with Rodrigo just yesterday and he says the podcast is a perfect complement in between my coaching sessions with Beck. So, shout out to you and shout out to the many members that tune into the pod each week as a little bit of inspo and accountability. Well, we'll see you on another episode very soon.

Bec Clare: Thanks, Ben. Love chewing the fat.

Ben Lynch: See you soon.