Ben Lynch: G'day, good people. Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic podcast by Clinic Mastery. Here's what's coming up inside of this episode.

Bec Clare: The challenge, particularly with first bub, is that your business has been your firstborn. What's one major myth you believe that clinic owners should stop believing when it comes to mat leave?

Hannah Dunn: That it's going to be detrimental to the business. I had a breaking point two years ago where I was just like three kids and a business is too much with a husband out of the house.

Bec Clare: A lot of the time we think we've got to be Wonder Woman. It's actually okay to take some time. It's nice to choose rather than be required. There's also nothing worse than being lonely at home as a mum and feeling like the expectations are that you should be disconnected from your business. Yeah, I definitely had a moment when I was like, yep, the team's ready, I'm good to go.

Hannah Dunn: And that was with baby number three.

Ben Lynch: This episode will be right up your Allie if you're looking to step back from the day-to-day operations of your clinic. We're diving into preparing clinic owners for long time periods of leave and trust me, you'll want to hear Hannah's take on how starting a family and growing a business can work without you burning out. Plus stick around for when Beck drops insights on handing over the reins to your team. Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by AllieClinics.com. If you're the kind of clinic owner who loves to feel organised and stay ahead of the chaos, you'll love Allie. Think of it as your digital clone. It's the single source of truth for all your clinics, policies, systems, and training. Test it for free at AllieClinics.com. And in other news, applications are now open to work with us one-on-one at Clinic Mastery. If you want support to grow your clinic and bring your vision to life, just email helloatclinicmastery.com with the subject line podcast and we'll line up a time to chat. All right, let's get into the episode. Now, two years ago, Hannah, you said something on this podcast that clinic owners still quote back to me. You told the story of signing clinic contracts in hospital with a one day old baby, absolute chaos, classic business and baby energy, right? But in the same breath, you said this, If you can, you ideally need the first three months with no contact with your business after having a baby. So you've gone from signing leases in labor to recommending three months of zero contact. And today we're going to unpack that because it caused a bit of a reaction. And I want to cover a couple of things with you both. How do you actually design a clinic that functions when you step away? In a Matt Leaves Sanson, having a baby, starting a family, continuing a family in your case as well. What does maternity leave look like when you are the owner? And then also, how do you support therapists on your team taking that leave without perhaps the business getting the wobbles and supporting them in particular in having their time and returning to work at some stage in the future if they want? So we've got Hannah here, Beck here, and we're going to go deep diving on what they got right, what they've changed, what clinic owners need to plan before the baby arrives, or if you've already got a young crew, how to actually manage the circus. I am deep in circus land, so I'm looking forward to hearing this and how you both manage it. So, two years ago, Hannah, three months with no contact. Did you mean that? And why do you think it got such a reaction from the community?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I definitely mean that. And I still tell members that I work with that I think three months no contact is a sweet spot. I think that like ideally longer, if you can take longer, but, um, if you have a minimum amount, it would be three months. And I think just getting through those first three months of whether you're a new mum, whether you're a second time or third time, or as your lovely wife, Ben, fourth time, um, There is just this thing about sort of getting to three months where it just feels like maybe you're in a bit more of a rhythm, baby might be sleeping a little bit more, feeding might be getting a little bit easier, those stretches are just happening a bit more, people might have dropped off more meals by this time, all those sorts of things that just feel a little bit easier. You might've been linked in with your mother's group by 12 months, by the 12 week period where you feel like you've started to get a bit more connection and just a bit more of a rhythm happening.

Ben Lynch: Everyone has their own journey, right? Especially for new mums, it's the first time. And that doesn't mean several babies later, it's always the same experience. And perhaps going into it, I want to unpack some of the things that you feel you could challenge certain beliefs that people have going into it, and then your experience after it. after it. But it was quite interesting and quite different from Annie Strack, who was previously on the pod talking about getting into it straight away. And so I love being able to share your unique experiences and also where you've seen other people maybe challenge the status quo. So, Bec, going into it for you, were you planning on having three months off? How did you think about having enough time to settle into new rhythms whilst also being there for your team and for your business?

Bec Clare: Oh, absolutely. And being a first-time mum, this is what, 22 months ago, Audrey's 22 months now, I didn't know what I didn't know, right? So, I also had no other mums around me. So, none of my friends were mums, no one in my family was a young mum, like I hadn't witnessed anyone do it, let alone a business owner that had been close to me. So, I sort of, yeah, didn't know what I didn't know. I was like, okay, baby might come home, might sleep, might not, might feed well, might not. So I'd plan for worst case scenario, zero sleep, terrible feeder, maybe some complications post birth. Like I was planning for worst case scenario and anything that felt better than that, hey, I was winning. I resonate though with Hannah in that that first three months, Not only do you want to be in this loved up bubble, right? But you also are learning so many new things, whether that be first time mom or second or third or fourth time around. You're then juggling new baby and toddler potentially. It's just new. And also you and your partner are going through a change in your relationship as well. So you really want to protect that space and to be making particularly big decisions in your business right at that point. I just can't imagine how we would have done that. Our plan was to take as much time away from the clinic as possible. In the end, we got 11 months, and that's mum and dad. We're co-directors, so both directors out of the business for 11 months. And when I say out of the business, we popped in and we visited with baby Audrey and spent time socially with the team to still feel connected because we still love the people that we work with. We just weren't available for the stuff that needed business-related stuff, really. But we had actively put people in place to ensure that we could protect that space.

Ben Lynch: It's a really good point about what you put in place beforehand. Hannah, as you reflect on your own experience in helping many other clinic owners navigate this, what are some of the critical things that you advise them get done, get prepared, rolled out to allow them to have this time off with, you know, as much sort of decreased reliance or sort of this uneasy feeling about being away from the business, maybe guilt of trying to juggle both. What are some of the essential things that you recommend they have in place before having this time?

Hannah Dunn: Yes. And as Bec mentioned, Audrey is 22 months old and my children now are Sebastian's four, Phillip is six and Matilda is 10. And so I'm a little bit past that and have then gone on to have two more that I had after Tilly, who I did have people in place and systems in place. One of the key things that I would always advise people to have in place is a who do I go to for this sort of document. So if I've got a question about my pays, if I've got a question about leave, if I've got a clinical question and just having a flow chart of these are the people that you go to for those questions so that people aren't thinking, oh, just call Hannah because that's easy and she knows all the answers to, I will go to this person. So I had said to my operations manager and my finance manager that of course they were welcome to call me. Um, but that ideally they didn't and I didn't, they didn't call me at all in those three months. And so I think it's really important to have that document in place. And we've spoken about this before, Ben, but one of the other really key things that we did was that Lisa and Louise had coaching and continued my coaching with Ben during that period. So they had Ben as a sounding board to sort of say, Hey, this is what's happening in the clinic. Do you have experience with this? Are there other clinics that have had experience with this? what do we need to do? And so I think the two things that I would recommend the most is a who do I go to document and having active coaching from whoever you may be getting coaching from.

Bec Clare: I completely agree, Hannah, and we did exactly the same. We had our practice manager in the practice leaders program, she had a community, we had our mentors in mentor mastery, and we had our senior clinician being coached in our place with our clinic mastery membership. And it was just incredible. And I would say that they actually grew more in that period of time than when we were actively coaching them as business owners, because they had to take the reins. They had to make, you know, make decisions and sometimes some tricky decisions. We had a team member resign. We weren't involved with. So it was a really incredible experience for them. And also particularly those team members who want a pathway, it's a really great opportunity for them to experience what it is to almost own a clinic.

Ben Lynch: It's a really great point. We spoke about that, Hannah, in maybe even the previous episode of, they feel a sense of significance, importance by getting this opportunity. We can frame it up as an investment in them. But there's almost this autonomy or possibility that they get when they get the reins handed over to them that's really good. But I love that practical document of just who to go for for these things, these scenarios. Previously, we've spoken about a version of that which is a delegation of authority, if you want to sort of structure it up or do a bit of research on a document like that. That really helps because I want to tap into the narrative that you hear, especially with the soon-to-be mums and business owners in the community. What are some of the bits that you hear they're most concerned about? What I tend to hear is, They're concerned that perhaps they're not going to be able to give their team enough time to be able to support their questions or in a mentoring capacity, that they're going to be so focused on home life that they won't be able to give their team time. And then that naturally can lead to, what if they leave, especially what if key people leave while I'm on that leave? So, they can tend to think sort of worst-case scenario about where the business might get to without perhaps their full time and attention. Hannah, you brought this up. You said, this needs to be the docket for today's conversation. Why is it so important to talk about this? Like, what are you hearing and seeing in the community that makes this such an important topic to talk about?

Hannah Dunn: I think pre-planning and I think just being aware that, you know, you've got time, like if you're pregnant now, you've got time to get these things set up. But also if you're not pregnant and planning a family that you want to ensure that your business is at the stage that it can be, that you step away for this period of time. And I also think we're all feeling the pinch with retention and keeping our teams. And so thinking about how we support our team as well when they go on maternity leave. Um, I know for us at DOTS, we've had sort of four or five mat leaves in the last 12 months. And I know, um, Mel Webber's had quite a number in her clinic as well. There's just a lot that, you know, it's sort of that age of the clinicians that we have when they've been on our team for, five or six years that it sort of feels really present. And it feels like sometimes it feels like it's never ending. Um, but very exciting for everyone, but just being able to, we've been talking about end of year and getting all our documents in place, 12 month planning. And I think this needs to be a part of that planning. Um, and even for dads on teams as well, making sure that if you're the director and you're going to be a father or you're a young dad, just making sure that those systems are in place to support the clinic while you're looking at your 12-month plans for if and when that was going to happen.

Bec Clare: These systems and these processes that we can put in place for if we're planning a family or you are pregnant, they also apply to if you're not having a family. Yes. Right? So it's about if you're on the tools and you want to come off or if you want to take extended holidays, you want to travel around Australia, I don't know. Whatever it might be is ultimately creating a business that can operate without you and independently creates autonomy and possibilities for our team. But it also means you have an asset. Yes. And one that continues to grow. So whether this is relevant for families, absolutely. But it's relevant for anyone who's owning a business who actually wants more than just a job.

Ben Lynch: It's a great point in the, we call it the coming off the tools process, which is essentially your journey from consulting perhaps full-time towards maybe half-time or zero. One of the first actions is get a date in the diary when that becomes effective. It just so happens when you've got a due date for a baby, that is likely the date that it has to happen or thereabouts. And so it kind of forces you into making the next step. So I totally agree with you, Bec. Hannah, Did you feel ready before having the baby? The team's ready to take it. I'm ready to have the baby. I'm ready to do it. Was there a milestone, a trigger that you thought, yeah, we're here, or did it just kind of blend into life? It's not so easy to spot. Tell us about that.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I definitely had a moment when I was like, yep, the team's ready. I'm good to go. And that was with baby number three.

Ben Lynch: Hold up, in all seriousness, was it that you lowered some of your expectations or the business was just more systemised and there was greater certainty? What was it about getting to Seb and going, no, I am much more confident here?

Hannah Dunn: Yes. It was definitely about systems. It was about having supervision pathways in place or mentoring pathways in place where I wasn't doing all the mentoring. It was where the business wasn't as reliant on me. I actually didn't pick up clients again after Philippa or after Pippa. And so that she's now six. So then when I had Seb, I had had two years of not having a client caseload. I often talk to clinicians or directors that I'm coaching or working with about saying exactly what you said, Ben, like a baby is a hard deadline. Sometimes we need to pretend that we do have these hard deadlines because if you were having a baby or you were going overseas, you would just have to do it. And so we just need to sort of put in these deadlines and make them real and whatever, maybe you do need to book a flight or something to make it. even realer, but it really is around having the right people in the right roles and ensuring that you've had those systems in place and potentially tested them with a week off or five days or whatever it is that you've done.

Ben Lynch: Bec, did you feel the same, like you were ready? There was a moment where you're like, okay, I'm good. No? Oh, absolutely not.

Bec Clare: No, I think probably if I was to do this again, Um, there'd be some key learnings. I think I worked right up until the day before Audrey was born. And I was like mad woman in the couple of weeks leading up to, I was like, everything's got to be finished. Everything's got to be finished. Oh my goodness. In reality, it didn't need to be that. I probably could have spent a little more time nesting or something. I don't know, resting. Um, but I was. Yeah, I was in sort of overdrive thinking, oh my gosh, I'm not planning to work. I need to get all of this stuff done for my team. Now I feel like they can operate independently. Just last week, we decided to go overseas with only four days notice for our team. And they acted fully independently. And that was a definite no contact zone. And I was very deliberate in that. So I wasn't on Slack. I wasn't on my emails. I'm completely uncontactable. And that was a really great reflection of having come back from that leave and being able to do it again and being able to test those systems again. And they're definitely more robust this time around. So I feel more confident. Hannah, to your point in terms of the hard deadline is have your hard deadline and one thing that our coach had told us was practice this stuff beforehand. So with four, six, eight weeks to go, say to the team, pretend I'm not here. let's test these lines of communication and make sure that, Hannah, if they're coming to you for something, they've gone then to the next person, and that person's got you there as a sounding board, as a safety blanket for a period of time before they have to fly solo. That was really helpful to us. And literally, the team actually pretended like I wasn't there. I didn't even say hi to you. No, no, I did get the odd hot chocolate delivered to my desk. They were sneaking. They're like, you're not here, you're not here, you're not here. But they're still deliveries.

Ben Lynch: Run the fire drill. I like it. It's like, you know, be prepared. See, see what happens.

Hannah Dunn: It's also something you said, Bec, but I can't remember what it was that made me think about, it's about who's the plumber to call if there's a plumbing emergency. What's the landlord's contact details? All of those external people too. Who is the accountant that I can call if we've got a question about the bookkeeping or whatever it is? Yeah, absolutely.

Ben Lynch: So, there's kind of maybe a couple of stages we could think about this in preparation for a due date and then post-baby, maybe in the sort of first 12 weeks as you alluded to, and then maybe a little bit more beyond that in the first 12 months. Let's call it 12 weeks to 12 months, at least as a way to perhaps consider this. I'm interested When Bubz comes along, you're in that maybe first 12 weeks period of time. What surprised you about maybe juggling baby and business? I know you're saying that you are largely offline. I'm sure you had the occasional email or phone call or Slack message, whatever the case may be. And I'll just speak to, yeah, the conversation previously with Annie was around typically, and everyone's different, but typically in those first few weeks, babies tend to sleep a lot. They come to life after maybe 12, 14 weeks. They need you a lot more. Actually, in those earlier days, you can actually be a little more available. Again, depending on your situation, you can actually get a little bit more done. But when they come to life at that 12-week mark and need more of you, that's actually when it gets a little bit tougher for a lot of people. I've heard that narrative a number of times over years of working with moms in business that we've coached. So I'm interested in what surprised you were in that instance, you able to get more things done or you're actually able to switch off? Like what surprised you most in the early days, Bec?

Bec Clare: Those early days feel like such a blur. Honestly, I think when, yes, baby sleeps a lot, but also you've perhaps been up most of the night feeding or haven't been able to sleep because you're recovering too. So I think that first 12 weeks, the message for me and why I think this podcast is so important, this episode, is a lot of the time we think we've got to be Wonder Woman. We see stuff on social media about mums that, you know, look a certain way, they're juggling their business, they're doing this. It's actually okay to take some time. and have team members in place who can look after your business so you can look after you and your baby and your family. And I think that's the key message. What I would say now is that, yes, there might have been more time when Audrey was really quite little and slept a lot, but we needed to do other things with that time. Now, when she's 22 months old, getting the computer out in front of her or being on Slack or whatever it might be is virtually impossible. because she just needs your constant attention. And that's what I want to be there for her. Yeah.

Hannah Dunn: While like Sebastian and Pippa were really good mateliers for me, for Tilly, I have, I did not even have admin support when I went, when I went and had her. Like I was running the business with the subcontractors that I had. And so there is photo after photo of me with Tilly sitting in my lap, me working on the laptop. taking phone calls for like booking new clients and that, like in what Beck is saying in that we do need to look after ourselves. I almost resented that time of having the business cause we give so much of ourselves to our businesses and to our team and to also be giving that time. I felt like if I just had, if I was just employed, I'd be not doing anything right now except enjoying this little bubble. And at the moment I am now booking, you know, in. people to be able to see clients with my team. And so I just, yeah, really feel that that's why I feel so passionate about those first three months, I think, because with Tilly, I was really resentful of the fact that I was having to work and I would go over to mum's place and be like, you need to take her. I like did, um, I ended up putting an ad on Facebook, um, mum's group, and that's where I got Lisa from. Which was a godsend during that period of time, but yeah, just not having any support. We've been there and I just would love to save people from doing what I did that first time with Tilly.

Ben Lynch: What was it that really drove you to be so immersed in it? Was it purely the fact that there was no admin support or was it you being super concerned about the financial state of the business? Like what was it that, um, I don't know, you were trying to do. during that period.

Hannah Dunn: I think it was what Beck just touched on in that we can do everything. Like I hadn't really thought about the fact, I was just kind of like, yeah, like I love it. I'm so passionate about it. Like I love supporting families. Like why won't I just keep going? And it wasn't till Tilly was here that I was like, oh, this is why you don't keep going because you want to be able to use your time for other things as Beck was saying. And so once Lisa came on board, like there's so many photos of me with Tilly in the clinic. And so to Annie's point, yeah, I got a lot done in those first three months. But once I got Lisa on, it was, you know, heaven to not have to, it's nice to choose rather than be required.

Ben Lynch: You raised it a little bit earlier from a, from a dad's perspective and I'll just share in a similar way, Hannah. Clinic Mastery turns 10 in a few days' time. And when we started, we had our firstborn, Tommy. And my wife was working so that I could start Clinic Mastery on bare bones like everyone does. And I know her sort of mentioning, I look back on the first sort of 6 to 12 months of our firstborn and kind of resenting a little bit that I wasn't there and was working financially to support us to start the business. And then, for me, I was at home with our youngest, our firstborn, Tommy. and starting clinic mastery. So I was there, had him on my lap, had the computer, had the phone. We would go for long walks, and a lot of what I was doing was voice to text to reply to emails, or speaking to people, say, through voice messages to reply to them while we'd go for a walk and I'd put him to sleep, and we were going back and forth to twice a day at one stage for me to take Tommy to get breastfed at Maddie's work. It'd be a half an hour commute for me, back and forth. And so that juggle of being able to go, okay, we want to have a family, but we also want to start a business or continue our business. It's a real juggle. And there's areas that you look back and you go, that was hard, or maybe to your point, I resent some of those parts. It can be hard to make some of those decisions in the moment when it does feel like maybe everything's important or you need to keep the wheels in motion for the business, but also for family. So it's incredibly hard to, you know, quote, get it right. And I'm not sure that's even a goal to have is to get it right. It's just changing, especially in the early days, almost day by day as new bubs grow, right, and the demands change.

Bec Clare: The challenge, particularly with first bub, is that your business has been your firstborn for probably, you know, the vast majority of a few years, right? And so then you're going, I still want to look after this firstborn and then have my newborn. And so there's the challenge of how do I hand it over? Am I ready to hand it over? It's still mine. And I think that's probably the biggest challenge that we faced was we still love and are really deeply connected to this thing. And it's not until your human arrives that that other instinct kicks in and you start to reassess and rebalance. That's how I sort of, I guess I saw the recalibration for us. But definitely it was insightful, eye-opening. You don't know what to expect, but it also progresses as your child gets older and they need more of your attention. With a 22-month-old now, it's virtually impossible to have the computer or a phone in front of her because she wants more of your attention. And now she's also at a point she's no longer laying in one of those cloud pillows where you feel like you can get heaps of work done. Yeah, it's different now. And now is almost more precious. The days that I'm not in the clinic, I really want to protect that time so that I'm really super present with Audrey. That's my vision and what I'm trying to do now.

Ben Lynch: When it comes to protecting your time, I know you're speaking there more around the family element, being with Audrey, but if I take the other side, which is, say, protect the business time, what I've found is that it's typically a great forcing function for business owners to figure out what is a priority, not only in the life sense, but also in the business sense. where you go, actually, I can hand over these tasks to somebody else. Or the main thing is that I'm mentoring team or creating the pipeline for the next generation of team or working on getting new clients. I actually find people quickly realise, okay, maybe I've only got a couple of hours to work on my business today or this week. What truly are the most important things for me to work on? And so, you know, hopefully you arrive at that maybe independently of being sort of forced into that position when you've got the juggle. But I find when the juggle happens, you naturally and very quickly evolve to figure out, I've got to process my day, my week differently to the way that I did before. So you actually level up, I think, as a business owner in your decision-making. Hannah, did you find that to be true for you?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, you know, we feel the time we have and when we have less time, we're way more structured in what we do. I think also, Ben, you touched on a really good point, not touched on, but spoke to a really good point about being the dad. Like, I think we overlook dads making sure that their businesses are ready to be able to run the way in which they would. And Beck, as you mentioned that you both are directors in your business. For us, I had a breaking point two years ago where I was just like three kids and a business is too much with a husband out of the house. And so Warwick actually joined the business to allow us to have more freedom and flexibility on who did swimming lessons and volunteered for that at school or who went in and did reading time and all of those other things that come beyond baby that you want to have set up that you might want to volunteer for an excursion or be able to attend the Mother's Day breakfast or whatever it is that allows you to be able to do those things later down the track. And that is whether you are mum or dad. And so for us, having Warwick in the business really created that flexibility of us being able to juggle what that looks like. And Warwick's actually just gone back to doing some construction work for one of our friends. And I am really finding it that it's really impacting that family balance because I can't just say, Oh yeah, I'll do swimming volunteering because I actually need to be at drop-off for this kid because I don't have a second person being here. So all of those things I think are really not something to skip over in what you were talking to Ben about you also being available for the camp or whatever it is that you can volunteer on at your kids' schools.

Ben Lynch: I started this morning, actually, at the kids' school. They were showing their work in my daughter Annie's class. They were showing their work for the year. I'd come in for 20 minutes or thereabouts and see what the kids had been working on this year, and it was just a wonderful way to start the day and just have that flexibility. and really meaningful touchpoint. Definitely my wife is much more involved in a lot of the day-to-day side of things, but we really try and use the calendar that we've so often spoken to, of how can we get those things in the diary, the big rocks, the meaningful things, from a family perspective. And as you were talking Hannah, I was thinking about so many of the great systems and approaches that we talk about in our business. I find a great structures if you can roll them into the family setting as well to give you that structure or that certainty. Bec, how have you gone about, you're the systems wizard, how have you gone about blending in what you do in business operations into the family side of things?

Bec Clare: Oh, absolutely. I thrive on a very well-organised, colour-coded calendar. I think I spoke last episode about that, even with emojis and things. We have a home calendar that we can, like in our GCAL, we've got our separate calendars and then our home one. Everything home goes in there. And so our favourite colour is green. So whenever you see something green on the diary, that's high priority. That's carved out home time.

SPEAKER_02: Yes.

Bec Clare: On that calendar is also our meals sort of mapped out for the week. A bit like if you have a capsule wardrobe and you know exactly what you're going to wear and you can just go to it and pull it out and it's there. Same thing goes for being organised from a food perspective. Hannah, I know that you've spoken a number of times about having someone help you, even in that space, to make sure that it's just one less thing to do and think about. But on a Sunday, we'll map out everything that we're eating. We can swap them around. Yes, okay, have a bit more creativity. But at least we know with some degree of certainty we can put food on the table at the right time for Audrey. It's going to be nutritious. We're all really well fed. And I think then you can leverage off of that. I think where you've got a healthy home lifestyle. Perhaps you've time-blocked even your walks into the diary or your fitness. And I know Shane Davis does this particularly well. The fitness is in the diary. He wants to not only be fit for himself, but to demonstrate that lifestyle to his kids. Put those big rocks in and make them visible even on your work calendar.

Hannah Dunn: And Shane and I have both spoken about this at the CM retreat, but the one thing that Shane said to me at one session a couple of years ago was he was like, Oh, who takes the kids to basketball? And I was like, Oh, some weeks walk and some weeks I do. And he was like, absolutely not. He was like, you need to lock that in. He's like, that is decision fatigue. That is not happening. He's like, what? You have a conversation every day. I'm like, yeah, we'll be like, hey, will you be home in time? Is it me? He was like, no, you are locking those things in like appointments and you can do term one, he can do term two, blah, blah, blah. But it cannot be a day to day decision. And that was really game changing for us in managing family life.

Ben Lynch: I love that decision fatigue, because it is. Bec, you spoke to it before, but I know we've all experienced it. So goes the territory with being parents is your sleep. And you can often be quite fatigued. There's a lot going on. And so if we're just adding these decisions that could otherwise be solved with one conversation into the future, that helps a lot. I was actually interested for the both of you in what were your one or two big decisions that you believe really made the biggest difference for you, even if it felt scary at the time?

Bec Clare: I think we decided exactly what day, when we did return to the clinic, exactly what days we were going to be there. And they were work days. And so we made sure that Audrey had appropriate care and was really well looked after and had fun on those days. That's important for me as well. And the days that we're not in the clinic, we're not in the clinic. And so when people are wanting to catch up, you know, that, have you got a minute conversation that invariably happens? Yes, I'm available Tuesday week. And just being okay with that and being able to sit with that, but being quite firm also on myself. with that time. Because people will spend your time if you choose to let them.

Hannah Dunn: Yes. And I think for me, the really big scary thing was not picking clients up again when I came back from having PIPA. It's really hard when you have an OT leave and you think, I could just pick up this caseload and then not have to worry about recruitment for a bit longer. I don't want to put too much pressure on my current team. But if you put in those physical barriers to really think about if I actually couldn't do it, if I already had a full caseload, I wouldn't be able to pick these clients up and I would have to sort something else out. And so just sticking firm to not picking up clients so that you can create more flexibility and security in the systems and team that you have.

Ben Lynch: What enabled you to stay strong to that decision, Hannah? Like you said, it's a narrative that we often hear clinic owners, I could just pick it up, super easy for me to just put some hours in the diary. I can kick the can down the road with recruitment. How were you able to stick to that decision?

Hannah Dunn: I think really having good coaching and good mentoring and support in that space to really look at the numbers and know that we had a little bit of breathing room to be able to say we could carry that for a few weeks and that we could try and recruit in that time. And that if to really look at if we're saying yes to those clients, what are we saying no to? And what we're really saying no to is having the time to recruit well and having the time to ensure the systems are in place. Yeah, it was almost just that Band-Aid solution that was going to fall off and it was going to create chaos later down the track.

Ben Lynch: I'll share mine. The biggest decision that made the biggest difference was, this is going way back 10 years ago, was that decision to go full-time into the business. Um, which was, it was sort of half and half working part-time and then Clickmaster was just getting started. That scary decision of, no, I'm actually going to go all in here. And I know for so many clinic owners early on in their journey, perhaps they are, you know, working at a clinic and they're starting their own or they've started their own and they're sort of dabbling at it. And it was that, that decision to kind of go all in and make it happen. That the financial certainty in particular is a big one for a lot of people, especially if you're going to have some time off or some leave in balancing starting a family, growing a family. That was a key consideration. But I think for folks as well who are feeling like, I need the business to be at a certain point before I start a family. What do you say to those people that maybe are putting off the family side of things until they feel like their business is at a certain size or stage?

Hannah Dunn: I think probably what Beck's thinking is we're never going to be ready. Like there's never a goal line that's going to have us ready. There's definitely things that we can put in place to be more ready. But I think ultimately you don't know what's ahead of you. Um, you don't know what those challenges might be to even having a family. And so I think if you're in a position in which you feel ready to sort of have that family and it's only the business that's holding you back, that I would challenge you that the business, like having that successful pregnancy will probably drive you harder to get those. tasks done. And there is a huge amount of support around you, no doubt, if you have built this team and particularly if you're getting mentoring and coaching support. Uh, there's so many policies and procedures available online or through Allie and different systems like that to support you that you don't have to do it all yourself. And so I just think Sometimes we hear stories of people putting off creating a family because they want to, um, ensure that the business is there. And then when they actually go and try, it's actually much harder than they expected. And so, um, that just, yeah, it just feels like you don't want to ever feel regretful to your business that you made a life decision based on the business alone while also being clever enough with the, um, systems in place.

Ben Lynch: Bec, you're nodding away. This is clearly resonating.

Bec Clare: I completely agree. Thinking about worst case scenario, if you weren't able to have a family or you needed some assistance to have that family, you needed a longer runway almost that you don't want to cut yourself too short because you don't feel like the business is ready. In the end, if you have a successful pregnancy, you take that test and every bubs is healthy, you've got nine months. Yes, like that's amazing. That's a great runway and with some support, you'll get there and things will take you as long as you give it. So if you go, I'm going to put this off until my business is ready, I hate to say it, you're probably never going to be fully ready because you haven't set that hard deadline. I think, Ben, another important point and what I speak to a lot of members about who are either contemplating having a family or have just started a family, have a young one, is they go, what's the right mix? Like, should I take three months, no contact, 12 months, we took 11. In the end, do what makes you happy and if interacting with your business genuinely makes you happy and you can balance that with your family, then do that. Because there's also nothing worse than being lonely at home as a mum and feeling like the expectations are that you should be disconnected from your business or not being part of it. whatever drives you and makes you a happy, healthy person, do that. No one else is questioning what you're doing. You write the rule book.

Hannah Dunn: Like I definitely made mistakes in those early days where like, yeah, it was awesome going into the clinic and who knew Louise was a baby whisperer and got all my babies to sleep all the time in the clinic, which was awesome. But also, like in those early days when I had just Tilly, you know, I had a babysitter council at one point and I decided to go ahead with the interview anyway and I took Tilly with me and it was an absolute disaster because she was probably at around that 22 month stage or no, she would have been younger than that, but she just cried the whole time. There are things that you make a decision that you can do, things that you can't, and sometimes you try things and they just don't work. And I mean, I would have loved to have got that OT on board, but it just was never going to happen in the way in which I did that. And we just acknowledge that sometimes we try to overcommit to these things. So I think the things that I would feel that I would do again differently are just being confident in saying I need to reschedule something or if I didn't have that ability to not be in the clinic or the right people there.

Ben Lynch: It's a great point. I want to summarise some of your points here and see if this resonates with you, but I feel it's applicable across life and business, and then in particular, family. You've got four kids now. I often see people get into a spot of bother when they've got almost too many expectations across the board in different areas. And then slowly, maybe some things don't quite work out, or maybe very quickly, the expectation isn't met. Thought I was going to have a sleeping baby. Thought it was going to be an easy birth. Thought that the handover of the team to my leader was going to work. Thought that the new recruit would work out. And you have a lot of these expectations that you're really clinging on to, like, it's all going to work out. And the reality is that it can be quite a bumpy ride. And so I just find that I always encourage people, whether it's a soon-to-be mom in business that I'm working with, whether it's a dad that's in business, or anyone in between, I always like to just get them to start to reflect on some of the things that really matter and some of the balls that are going to bounce, that it's okay if you drop the ball on, and just to kind of rein in or scope in some of the expectations that they have, knowing that it's not going to be perfect. because there's a lot that's out of our control. And there's a lot that maybe we try to influence, but the chips don't fall our way. So I just want people to actually do a bit of a self-reflection and in particular, try and write it down because otherwise the conversation, you're just overthinking it, overstewing it, right? It's to get down, all right, these are the things that really do matter to us, that we are precious on, you know, trying to preserve the quality time with family or whatever it might be. These are the things we'd like to have, but you know what? things out of our control might influence them to be less than ideal outcomes. So, just for those folks, I find anyone that gets to a point where they're feeling really overwhelmed and burnt out absolutely should get professional help around them. But also, it's something that they can control is just sitting down and looking at the expectations they have of themselves, of their team, of their partners. And maybe my call to action is to maybe have less, have less expectations that everything's going to work in your favour. Hannah, what do you think to that? I see you nodding to some, but how do you frame that up? Because there's a lot to manage. In my summary of kind of what you've spoken to is a lot can go right, a lot can go wrong.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, that's right. And I just think like it will, people will manage, like people have accidents and people have times where they have to stop working. These things happen in business and, um, this is an exciting time and to just really protect that time as much as you can. But there is going to be times in which that just does not work and. you are juggling what feels like too many balls in the air. But I think as Beck said, like planning for worst case scenario and, you know, writing those ideas down, as you've just mentioned, really sets an expectation because often we're more disappointed by that expectation than we are by the reality of what is happening. Yeah.

Bec Clare: I agree, Hannah, and I think having a think about when we think about expectations is having a think about who's actually set that. Have you set that expectation on yourself or is there some external force that you think is there or perception versus reality? Are my team actually expecting this of me or is it just my perception that they expect that of me? Because I dare say in most cases they don't expect you to be Wonder Woman. Yeah.

Ben Lynch: And a really practical one is like, oh, you know, I thought I was going to be able to work four hours on my business, you know, in the middle of the day while Bubs is sleeping. Bubs didn't sleep. I didn't get to work on it. And then I start to be like, God, you know, I get angry about it or frustrated about it. And that rolls into two or three days and all of a sudden the week's gone. I feel like I didn't get anything done. And so just being able to moderate those expressions, be flexible. It's one of the most changing, evolving times in your life. Um, that's where I think keep the surface area to a minimum of, uh, what you think might just work out absolutely perfectly, uh, in different areas. If we, if we just pivot a little bit here to team members taking that leave, how do you spoke to it? And Mel on the teams had plenty happened in the past year or so. How do you help a therapist prepare so their caseload doesn't just drop off completely, that we're able to support not only the team member, but the caseload that sees that patient? How do you prepare, Hannah, your therapist for that leave?

Hannah Dunn: We allow our therapists to communicate with their families as soon as they would like to, so that's up to our therapist to make a decision on when they're comfortable. Some people that's 12 weeks, for some people that's closer to 20 weeks, whatever that may be. And then we just make sure that we've got handover plans in place for each one of those clients with one of our current team or whether we're recruiting to a MATLEVE position. Um, we, the question often comes about, about do people have mat leave programs in place? And we have a return to work mat leave program where once you come back to work, we give you an extra two weeks of personal leave or annual leave to use for extra appointments or anything that you may need. Um, pro rata, so if you're coming back three days a week, then it's six days extra. And then we also provide a financial contribution, which is $50 a day of returning to work for the first six months to go towards childcare costs, but it just goes to the therapist. So it doesn't actually, if they don't have childcare costs, they could use it on something else related to baby. But that has been our incentive for people to return to work rather than doing a MATLEVE program on the exit, which is what often happens in government roles or in bigger corporations. So we have a return to work MATLEVE program, which has worked quite well and supported our team.

Ben Lynch: And Hannah, how do you frame that up with your team members? We've just spoken of your personal experience in terms of returning to work in that three months. How do you actually frame it up to team members to clarify the expectations or give them some of that permission? How do you talk about it?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah. I mean, we have it on our hub around what the expectations are. We talk about how many days they want to come back to work. Sometimes people, we don't allow, we don't bring new team members onto our team for less than three days a week, but we will bring mat leaves back for two days at a minimum. And no one's asked me to do one day, but if they did, I potentially would look at that as well. Um, and so, because the goal would be to build those days up over the first six months. Um, but. I think it's just about making sure you've got open and transparent communication and we always invite them to our team days and those sorts of things while they're on mat leave as well. Um, and sometimes they come and sometimes they don't, but there's no expectation that they do come. But as Beck mentioned, you know, sometimes we do like to stay connected to the team and that goes for our team as well. Um, 12 months off can seem like a long time. Yeah. So yeah, it's really just around having conversations about what that therapist needs as well. We've had team members who've been really sick during their pregnancies as well, so sometimes they have just needed to have extra time off and we've brought in AHAs to sort of be available to support those sessions if needed or whatever has been needed during those times. Make sure you go along because we're all pretending.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, well, this is a good question. I was going to ask, you're quite systemising that approach. I'm sure there was a point in time where it wasn't that, and it's probably because of some learnings or mistakes you made along the way. What were some of those mistakes you look back and go, okay, well, that led to some of these structures we've now got, but for someone that's just starting out or preparing for a team member to take that, what are the things that you'd advise them to avoid or what mistakes did you make?

Hannah Dunn: that families don't want to find out on their own that someone is pregnant. Like they don't want their therapist to walk in one week and then be like, oh, are you pregnant? And we're going to lose you because that creates a lot of anxiety in our world of paediatrics with clients who often stay for quite a few years with their same therapist. And so I think just giving the permission and really being systemised in the documentation of how do we do those handovers has been my biggest learning around what we needed to do.

Ben Lynch: So what's one major myth you believe that clinic owners should stop believing when it comes to mat leave?

Bec Clare: That it's going to be detrimental to the business. oh my gosh, I'm losing this team member. I think genius, Hannah, around a return to work plan. I think, you know, we shouldn't dread the fact that someone comes to us and says, oh, hey, I'm starting a family. We've got, you know, we haven't yet had the PhysioWest baby boom, but I suspect it's well on the cards. There's a number of conversations that are unfolding and I'm so excited and can't wait to have those conversations with our team. Because we also want to be on the journey with them for their version of success, whatever that looks like. And I approach it from a solutions perspective. If that new team member needs to go part-time, that creates another opportunity for someone else to come into our business. So I'm constantly looking at it from an opportunity perspective versus thinking like, oh my gosh, I'm losing this person. By having that mindset, you're also more likely to have that team member come back because it's a positive environment and you're going to manage and lead that maternity leave conversation or paternity leave conversation in a much more measured way. So you're much more likely to retain them by just your own mindset and attitude towards that leave period.

Hannah Dunn: We do give two weeks of extra leave to the secondary parent as well, if that's the father. We've had a father on our team as well. I just think one of the biggest mistakes that people also make is potentially bringing that person that's been on mat leave back into a team leader role if they're only coming back for two days. I think having open conversations about the fact that a two-day team leader role is not going to work in the same way and that you're happy to look at doing a different pathway or something, but not necessarily bring them back in that same capacity sometimes.

Ben Lynch: Really great point there, Hannah, and sort of understanding their role within the context of the overall team and what the overall team needs as well. I'm interested if you were to distill down how becoming a parent has changed the way you lead or operate as a business owner. I feel like I've learned a lot of lessons, probably that one of the standards and the flexibility while, you know, so often we talk about culture as standards. Essentially, what behaviours are we willing to tolerate? And that kind of sets the tone or the culture for how people show up and support one another and support their clients. But that idea of the flexibility that a lot of things you plan for aren't necessarily going to go to plan and that you always need spare wipes and a nappy, being prepared for travel is so important as a parent. But how has it sharpened you or changed you as a business owner, Hannah, as we look to wrap this episode?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I've definitely been more efficient in the time that I use and definitely been a lot more relaxed about the small stuff. Like, and you know, I say small stuff, but I'm really referring to like a resignation and you know, that stuff that just sort of is part and parcel of running a business now. It's not dire, which I felt like it was before because you just know there's so much more to life than a resignation. And you know, you can get through that. You've gotten through way more than that.

Ben Lynch: Gives you great perspective. What about you, Ben?

Bec Clare: as well as perspective, I'd also go, it's really changed the way that I view my bandwidth. What am I willing to, what are the standards I'm willing to tolerate and walk past and what are the ones that I'm really going to uphold? But also how do I ensure that I am the best version of myself? What do I need to do to protect that for myself, for Audrey, to be a great partner and to be a great leader? So definitely much more aware, but much more protective of that space as well.

Ben Lynch: How interesting. I think what's great about hearing both of your stories and, you know, outlining some of the people that we've worked with is that it is quite a unique experience for everyone. And hopefully by sharing bits and pieces today, and over time we're able to illuminate some of the myths, challenge some of the beliefs or thinking that you might have, and encourage you that it's tough, it's hard, but it's also wonderfully joyous and quite an adventure to juggle both. Um, it's a, you know, I think of that, um, Billie Jean quotes, you know, pressure is a privilege. It feels like there's a lot of pressure at times when you are doing the juggle and what a privilege it is to be able to, to do both. So thank you so much for your insights. We're going to continue down this path into the new year around family and business. Um, there's just so many people in the community that are. starting or growing a family or, or, or want to start a family. And, um, this is a lot of the meaning behind running a business as well, why we do it. Um, so Beck, Hannah, thank you. And we'll see you on another episode very soon. Bye bye.

Bec Clare: Thank you. See you.