Ben Lynch: It's showtime. You wouldn't want to see my desk right now. God, it feels like just the other day that we were hitting episode 300. Before you know it, we're going to be knocking on episode 400. This is so good. Two a week, pretty much, been crushing it. That's what it's all about. Joel and I are doing the reps, talking into the abyss. G'day, good people. Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic podcast by Clinic Mastery. Here's what's coming up inside of this episode. This episode will be right up your Allie if you are handling a clinic crisis. We're diving into communications to team and clients. And trust me, you want to hear Hannah's story on how being thrown into the media whirlwind led to great communication changes. Plus stick around for when we discuss the four key steps to handling rapid change in your clinic. Ahoy, are you joining us?

Hannah Dunn: Hi Jack, you might remember me from such times as episode 362. At the summit I spoke to three different situations, one of which being a team member who had up and left and stolen a whole lot of clients.

Jack O'Brien: Give you the kudos, you and your team, of how you handled yourself so gracefully and confidently.

Hannah Dunn: We ended up on the front page of the newspaper last year for not the right reasons, so I shared a four-step framework that I just called the What Now Framework.

Ben Lynch: the emotional response, understand the reality, control the narrative, build the path forward. That were the four parts.

Hannah Dunn: Did choose to do an interview with Jacqui Felgate. That's a live interview. So I knew there was no editing that was happening.

Ben Lynch: Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by allyclinics.com. If you're the kind of clinic owner who loves to feel organised and stay ahead of the chaos, you'll love Ally. Think of it as your digital clone. It's the single source of truth for all your clinic's policies, systems and training. Test it for free at allyclinics.com. And, in other news, applications are now open to work with us one-on-one at Clinic Mastery. If you want support to grow your clinic and bring your vision to life, just email hello@clinicmastery.com with the subject line podcast, and we'll line up a time to chat. All right, let's get into the episode. My name is Ben Lynch. I'm joined by Hannah Dunn, director of D.O.T.S OT, Jack O'Brien, the emcee of the GYC Summit. It was quite an event. 300 odd people. Hannah, I asked Beck the other day, what was a highlight? Maybe it was a talk, maybe it was a conversation, maybe something else. What was a highlight from you off the back of the summit?

Hannah Dunn: I think for me, just always the buzz of being in the room with everyone, with members that we may never have met in person before, with the team. I think it's just really exciting to come together.

Ben Lynch: There's that beautiful like quote, I'll butcher it, but it's something along the lines of what you see depends on where you stand. And I often think of that in the sense that through different seasons or stages of business, revisiting something with a totally new lens because you have a totally different context. You've added team members. So all of a sudden, those conversations about pathways or pay or mentoring or performance have added weight or added relevance right now. I like that. I think that's part of mastery, right, is continue to have an open mind and learn. J.B., you've spoken with a lot of people this week, and we'll get to some of the other intro bits in a moment, but what's been the sentiment? What's been the debrief post-event for you?

Jack O'Brien: People are taller in real life than they are on Zoom. It's been a common theme, common piece of feedback. And the commentary about a sense of belonging. We've had so many of our communities go, this is exactly … I didn't realize other people saw the world like I do. I didn't realize I could be a clinic for good. I didn't realize that it's possible to be impact oriented, to have a passion to lead my team and make a difference in my community. I didn't realize there's others out there like me and that I can get the help that I need to make that a reality. Just super, yeah, it warms the cockles of my heart. Lovely.

Ben Lynch: And I think probably the beginning, well, not probably, actually, because I told this to you straight after the talk. Yeah, your opening was just amazing. One of the more CM-inspiring clinics for good, sort of that juxtaposition of throwing in the towel. then kind of refinding, recalibrating back to your calling or why you do what you do. And then that flying through to Hannah, what we're going to talk about today, a very real example of potentially why people might want to throw the towel in, and that is dealing with crises in their clinic. We'll get to that in a moment because your very practical, very real adversity through that experience is what we want to talk through. There's a bunch of people that have joined Allie recently. And J.B., I don't know if you got any other notifications here, but just a warm welcome to Justine, Michael, Travis, Jason, Stephen, Sean, and Elizabeth. Thank you so much for installing Allie into your clinics to support your team members. March 2027, Adelaide is going to play host to the GYC Summit. Come and have yourself a great South Australian experience. It's going to be superb. Also, for members listening in, get your accommodation and flights booked super early because it is the Live Golf Tournament and the end of the Fringe Festival here in Adelaide, so that'll be hot property. JB?

Jack O'Brien: Yeah. I mean, Summit tickets are available for everyone. It is a member's event and there is a small number of tickets available. And if you are not a member and you purchase a full price ticket and you join Clinic Mastery, the Academy or Elevate, we will credit you the difference. 83% I think is the difference. So we'll credit that to your membership. Get your tickets. They will sell. We've sold like 10% already or something like overnight. Nice. So get your tickets and welcome to our community. Kate has joined the Business Academy and Jono has joined Elevate in the last few days. So welcome to the community. We are stoked you are here. There is a literal like a couple of fingers worth of memberships left for March and then we've already got a wait list for April. And so if you want help to grow your clinic, amplify your impact, fill your books, grow your team, optimize your operations, Let's have a conversation. So if you are interested in the summit or you're interested in getting help, jack@clinicmastery.com and we'll figure out whether there's a fit or we can point you in a better direction.

Ben Lynch: Perfect time of year to be looking at how you get through the winter doldrums, how you get through there and navigate into a springtime later this year. Hannah, your session was very impactful for a number of reasons, sort of connect the dot there between the throwing the tower sort of moments. Do you want to just tee up? We've talked a little bit about it on the pod over time. to varying degrees of depth, but do you want to set the scene for the experience you found yourself in on the back foot, having to deal with a bit of a crisis? And then we'll get to how you managed it, because I think it applies across the board, whether it's a key team member leaving or insert any other thing that you have to deal with in a reactionary mode, but just set the scene for how you ended up dealing with a crisis.

Hannah Dunn: So, and I really liked hearing about, Jack, your situations too, because I think they're really relevant to today and us talking to them.

Ben Lynch: The embezzlement of a hundred grand, the flooding of the clinic, yeah.

Hannah Dunn: Yes. At the summit, I spoke to three different situations, one of which being a team member who had up and left and had done that in a way in which, you know, I thought everything was going well, but not only that, the following day had set up her practice in the same suburb of ours and stolen a whole lot of clients that led to, you know, us having some legal questions around what we needed to do. The second being COVID where we had to pivot onto telehealth and actually how that turned out to be, you know, really successful for us as a business. And the third in which I think people were most interested in was that we ended up on the front page of the newspaper last year for not the right reasons and reasons in which people would probably want to avoid. I think we would all love to get some publicity if it was the right publicity. But our workplace was disconnected to someone that was in the newspaper, which we then had to sort of clarify how long that person had worked with us and whether there'd been any risks in our environment, which we were confidently able to say that there hadn't been.

Ben Lynch: Do you want to just share what you can, just a little bit more about those news headlines? Like this is someone under a police investigation and they had worked at your clinic. I realize there's some stuff you can share, can't share.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, I probably don't want to share too much about it. Like I probably don't want to share too much more about the situation. I think with our listeners, we can, like it can be quite triggering these stories for people. And I think that the information in which we're sharing is relevant to what is being in these frameworks.

Ben Lynch: You ended up having to be really on the back foot, right? So you jump into sort of reactionary mode and handled it really with a great structure and grace. Just talk us through like maybe even sort of the next 24 hours as you recall it or the next couple of days. What did you do? How did you do it? Was it like a call with practice managers, the leadership team? How did you actually jump into action and navigate this once you heard about it?

Hannah Dunn: Yeah, so the way in which I shared it at the summit I think is really effective in that I got a phone call from our operations manager, just Louise, who I talk about always, who said to me, oh, I want to let you know that there's a news article. It's about the person that was on front desk at our clinic. that, just giving you the heads up. And I was like, okay, great. I opened up the newspaper online, had a look, and what had happened was there had been a list of sites of workplaces in which he had worked where the rest were childcares and we were not a childcare, we're an occupational therapy service. And so we really felt that we weren't associated and had no expectation that we would be listed. And so to see our name there was really shocking. And so I sort of thought, okay, well, like, who's reading these lists? Like, how big is this story? Like, it's pretty far down. It's on a government website. Turns out a lot of people are, including myself, a mum of three, one who's in a childcare setting, and wanted to make sure that it wasn't a childcare setting that, you know, one of your kids have been at. And so when I read the list and saw us, it was not for the purpose of checking to see if we would be there. It was for the purpose of what all and to see which ones my therapist had been working in because it was in the Western suburbs. But very quickly we started getting phone calls from families. And I think what I shared at the summit and the steps in which I used, I think are really important at this point in the emotional response being really important to sort of take that first step. So I shared a four step framework that I just called the what now framework, which had four steps around emotional response, understand the reality, control the narrative and build the path forward. But just going back to that emotional response when I first got that call and we were getting phone calls coming in, it was sort of a, we need a quick gap stop now so that our admin team have something to say to these families straight away. But also, I need to think this through. I need to take a moment. I need to understand the context. I need to understand the reality. And I need to get really clear about what my steps forward are. It wasn't just clients calling. I had friends. I had colleagues. I had people who were members in CM sending me messages. Like, there was people that just knew me, people that I went to school with who I hadn't heard of forever. You know, there was a whole lot of people that reached out and I've actually had people since who work in media or work in, um, you know, digital marketing or somewhere say, I'm really sorry I didn't reach out in that time, but I felt that you would have had too many people reaching out. And I was like, I'm actually really grateful that you didn't reach out because we did have so many people reaching out that it was, that part of it was probably more overwhelming than the actual work that we had to get done. And so we then stopped to sort of, yeah, think about what was happening and what did we need to do and really just started to look at what was the situation. You know, we pulled up our records of Employment Hero and had a look at how long that person had been employed with us, which was a year earlier than this news article. So they hadn't worked for us for over a year. We hadn't heard of them for over a year. We also had listed that they'd worked for us for five weeks. And we wanted to get that message out there that in five weeks of onboarding into an admin position, we had had them on our front desk and we had had them under constant supervision because that's what we do in our training in regards to just paired like someone else sitting and working next to you so that we can build up in our admin space. And so that they hadn't been alone at all. But what really irks me is that we said they'd been with us for five weeks, but then we remembered that we paid them out a week. So actually it was only four weeks and I would have loved to, I'm like, who cares? But I do. And no one cares anymore. But it's just one of those things that I'm like, oh, actually in the clinic, four weeks paid five weeks. So, yeah, really spoke to at the summit around giving your permission to feel that emotional response, which allows time and space to occur, to allow you to sort of gather an understanding of what the reality is.

Jack O'Brien: You know, I was thinking, hopefully no one, but not many will be in exactly this scenario, but the broader premise is that we will probably all at various times in our clinic ownership career find ourselves I'll say, indirectly implicated in a regrettable scenario, being the buzzword of the quarter regrettable. And so, you know, when you are implicated, it's like, what do we do? And you don't just necessarily want to launch, like you say, Hannah, emotionally into defending yourself and justifying yourself. And sometimes that can reek a little bit more than the implication itself. So how do we not react but respond publicly? I want to give you the kudos, you and your team, of how you handled yourself so gracefully and confidently and truthfully and rationally. It was beautiful to watch.

Hannah Dunn: I think it really came down, and you mentioned it just then, like the team. You know, we're not doing this alone and we need to ensure that we have built team around us. And, you know, you might be in a small clinic and it may not be that you have the team that you can do this with right now, but your team might be your external advisors. It might be your coach. It might be your mum. It might be your friends. It could be people who've experienced things like this. Um, it's just so important to not just go on your own thoughts and feelings in these moments because there are so many different perspectives. And I mentioned at the summit that I, um, I always want to say retreat at the summit that we, I use those people and I called my brother who is a, an accountant and a director of an accounting firm. and said, you know, do I need to send something out to families? And he's also a dad and he was like, absolutely you do. And I was like, oh, do we? I kind of thought maybe we'd get away with not. And he was like, no, you can't. Like, and I was like, okay, all right. And then I wrote something and I called Mel Webber and another one of the coaches and I emailed it through to them. They read over it and they picked up some nuances that really made a difference to the way in which it was read. When someone else is reading it, you have the full context of what you want to say, but when someone else is reading it, they can be like, oh, you could interpret this this way. And just changing a few of the words can make it a whole lot clearer. So it's so, we can feel a bit embarrassed or feel a bit scared about other people reading our work or reading when we're feeling vulnerable, but it's so powerful to get people to take the time to do that for you too.

Ben Lynch: So four parts to this, the emotional response. Understand the reality, control the narrative, build the path forward. That were the four parts. Let's go through the emotional response side. You had a number of really good points that you shared with us at the summit. Do you want to just talk through some of those points and the experience in the story as well of going through this? Because there was a lot, as you said, not only were you trying to handle this in a timely manner. But also you're getting people reach out to you for support. You feel maybe an obligation to reply to them. And there's lots of people, there's lots of things happening all at once, let alone whatever you were actually working on in the clinic at that point. Maybe it was recruitment or some challenging conversations and then this inserts itself into your life. So the emotional response. Talk us through what you mean by that and some of the things that you found useful in navigating it.

Hannah Dunn: Yeah. And also something we haven't mentioned is all of our members get access to the recordings of all of the talks from the summit, even if they weren't there, which is so valuable. And you know, all the previous year talks are there as well. So if you've heard anything from Beck or any of the boys over the last little while or coming up, then it's the place to be. Jump in. I think one of the biggest things and, you know, in different clinics, different people talk about different behavioural standards. But one of the things that I think we do a lot of is talking about above the line and below the line behaviour and that it's okay to fall below the line sometimes, but we acknowledge it and we try and get back above the line. And I think in these moments that Jack, when you had the embezzlement or when I had the therapist leave, you know, we wanted to wring their necks and really get angry. I mean, I'm guessing for you, Jack.

Ben Lynch: He's like, that's the polite version.

Hannah Dunn: And I think sometimes we do hear of our clinics doing that, that we do hear that they, you know, go a bit below the line when that emotional response comes out and they go, I didn't handle it in the best way or, you know, I said things I shouldn't have said in the moment because I was angry about what happened with that situation. And so that's why I really wanted to highlight the importance of us just taking that moment with the right people in the room at the right space. where you're not venting to your team about someone who's done something wrong if they're at the same level of that team member. You know, maybe you've got a team leader that you can have an honest conversation with, but we don't want to find ourselves in a position in which we've made a situation make our whole situation worse, where now our team don't trust us because they feel like we talk about them in that way or whatever it is that has come through.

Ben Lynch: I found the connection between point one and point two that you've got here very helpful for myself, having navigated a few different things as well. The emotional response and understand the reality. You mentioned around putting space and time between the event and our response, and I is helpful practically, and you called this out, is actually just trying to understand the facts on the ground before you start projecting into the future, you know, this could happen, this could happen, or how is it going to be interpreted? What will this mean for other people? It's like, okay, let's just find out what has actually happened. And let's be really clear on that first. J.O.B., when you were navigating some of those challenges, Do you recall how you went about it? I know there's a bit of time and space between now and those events happening in your world. But yeah, how did you navigate through those challenging periods where you're put on the back foot and all of a sudden find yourself navigating a crisis?

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, there's a couple of things that come to mind is having an emotional response is human. And so, it's okay to have them. It's how we have them and where we have them and who we have them with. And so, having someone that you can call and say, I just need to vent for a minute. Is it okay if you listen? Can we talk? Maybe some of us have verbal processes. So, that's really normal. You don't need to, you know, hot pin things up and it's okay to vent. So that's important for me. I like to be able to talk things through, things become clearer as we explore them conversationally. And for me, like a really practical tip is to get outside and go for a walk. It's like, get outside, touch grass, see the sun, breathe the air, and move. I find that I'm able to think clearer when I'm moving. I can see the forest through the trees quite literally sometimes. That in some ways just buys you time, even if it is buying you five, ten minutes with your own thoughts. It allows you to see things from different perspectives. I think that can be helpful. You know, really what we're talking about here is when something is thrust upon you, right? We don't plan for these things. So it's important that we plan now how we will respond for the unplannable. And it might be, not to be too dramatic, but it might be catastrophic like being on the newspaper. Or it could be as simple as a Google review that might derail you. And being derailed is relative for all of us. It might be something relatively small that triggers us or maybe we've built up some resilience and it takes a lot to shake us and rattle us. But it's knowing in advance how am I going to respond when I'm caught off guard with something that's out of my control and perhaps reputationally challenging. Who will you call? Where will you walk? It's almost like, I joke that my wife's a bit of a prepper. She's not collecting petrol or toilet paper at the moment, just relax. But how can we be prepared for the unpreparable?

Ben Lynch: interesting thought to have. Something's going to happen if it hasn't already for folks. So, being able to think through proactively makes sense. I don't know how you do it with any degree of structure.

Jack O'Brien: It's a quick little checklist, obviously. Yeah. When the call comes, when a message comes, when the email comes, what am I going to do? And you want to have pre-decided. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to call my business coach. She's a great one. That's the point of having a coach. I'm going to call a business partner, call someone, and I'm going to go for a walk. For me, it's those two. I just know I don't have to think in the moment. Go for a walk and call someone.

Hannah Dunn: And that, you know, Ben, just before we jumped on, we were talking about my last slide is really what I was talking to. And I'll give it a quick read if that's okay. I finished off my presentation at the summit just by saying this. Over time, what we've realized is this. It's not the clinics that avoid hard moments that last. It's the ones that know what to do when they come. And the good news is when things go wrong, you still get to decide what happens next. And you don't have to do it alone. You get to choose who it is in that moment with you. That comes down to the team you build and the leadership you show every day before things do go wrong. And essentially that is what we are saying, like things do go wrong. And I also spoke to the fact that I don't feel any different to anyone else in the room, that I know that people in that room have had things go wrong. We've had business relationships break down with directors and shareholders selling assets. Like there's been a whole lot of things that go wrong. I think it's just now, and hopefully Jack's in this boat too, we don't rock under the table like we did when they happened in the first years of business.

Jack O'Brien: So something I'm curious on, Hannah, is in these particular situations when you're caught off guard and I'll say there's a reputational risk at play over something that's happened historically, something that I think I observed you do well and I'm curious on your perspective, how much of our response should be addressing what's happened versus staying future-oriented and pacing things positively towards the future?

Hannah Dunn: I definitely think that we want to stay future orientated. Like we want to avoid getting into he said, she said situations. Why? Just, it doesn't serve us well. It doesn't represent us well. We look petty and can look like, you know, um, that it was Ben that made the calendar wrong. Not you. We can just look like, it just doesn't feel, it doesn't build confidence, it doesn't build certainty.

Jack O'Brien: It doesn't look good on you, does it?

Hannah Dunn: No. And so I think by sticking to the facts and sticking to, I guess for me what I did was when I was like understanding the reality, which was absolutely get out that piece of paper, draw up the cross of what is feeling, what is fact. And we have a lot of feelings that are hard to determine and recognize that they're actually feelings, not facts sometimes. When we do that, I think it's important to think about what are the questions you're pre-empting that you're trying to answer? Like what are the questions that are coming? And that is what I had my thought around. Because one thing we haven't mentioned is I was inundated with media requests. And I mentioned at the summit that one in particular was a current affair who promised me an off the record chat. And I don't know if they know what those words mean, but I had no, no belief that that would be the case and declined that, but did choose to do an interview with Jacqui Felgate. That's a live interview. So I knew there was no editing that was happening to what was being said. And I was confident in the way in which I'd seen her reporting previously on stories. And so when I was doing that interview, the dot points that I wrote down and, you know, the hour I had between knowing I was doing it and doing it were what are the things that I want to hit here and what do I want to avoid and what I wanted to avoid was that emotional questioning. And there was, I re-listened to the interview just before the summit to take out some snippets to show at the summit. And what really I avoided was when she pushed questions like, it's just so terrible, isn't it? And you know, it's so awful. and really getting into that kind of conversation around that, I sort of said, yeah, it is, but, you know, we're really proud of our policies and procedures that allowed us to exit this person in a very quick period of time. And, you know, while it was really challenging for us and while the one-star reviews are really tricky, we really just feel for the families who are truly involved and sort of reshifted the focus to say, yeah, it's bad, but it's not the end of the world and it's not us that's the main focus of this story. I do want to be clear that we didn't exit him for any concerns around anything that was to do with the article. We exited him due to concerns for the fact he just wasn't doing his job like, just like you would anyone in a probation period. So, um, that, yeah, I think that messaging of just sticking to the facts of what are the questions, let's not go further into detail than we need to go.

Jack O'Brien: I really like that. A negative Google review is probably the most relatable example for other clients. We've probably all at various times had that. Do we spend our time justifying and explaining or do we thank them for their commentary? Really, we're actually doing this for people watching along. We're setting an example for our team and for our current clients to give them confidence and certainty for the future. So in your case, it's relying back on your policies process and what actually happened in truth. And yeah, for clinics, it's similar. We're doing this as an example for our team and for others watching along.

Hannah Dunn: Absolutely. Um, and I think, yeah, it's just so important to get clear about what you do want to share and what you don't want to share and how with those Google reviews, getting clear on how you're going to respond to those. If it is a current client, how do you respond? Like we've had a current client give us a one star review and then want to continue to get service from us. Like if we're a one star, why are you seeing us? You know, and it's always due to, you know, one thing like a fee increase or something that they're not happy about that they want to make sure everyone else is aware of. But it's very challenging as business owners to get one star reviews and continue to service that client or whoever it is. And so getting clear about what is the purpose of your reply and the purpose of your reply is not really communicating with that person who gave you the review. You're communicating with the people that are looking at your website or reviews.

Jack O'Brien: The same is true, I think, about a coaching session I had with a member, Lauren, earlier this week. She's dealing with an unfortunate circumstance of a team member who's, similar to one of the scenarios you described, open up around the corner, is probably being a little nefarious in some of their actions. And I said, Lauren, how we respond here is less about this individual and more about being clear and kind. clear is kind and making sure our teams see that we are not a pushover, that we are gentle but firm and that truth matters and integrity matters and strength matters in these scenarios. We're not here to respond out of emotion. We're not here to strong arm people. We're here to be clear and hold up what's been agreed to. and move forward. And so whether it's a newspaper article or a Google review or a team member doing the wrong thing and in terms of like setting up around the corner, et cetera, how we respond in a forward focused orientation makes all the difference.

Hannah Dunn: And I think also thinking about our audience, as you've just said, but who needs to know about that therapist sitting up around the corner? For me, there was a handful of families that needed to know. They were the ones that we had the reality of the data that showed us that their files had been downloaded and therefore transferred to a clinic, which we didn't have consent to transfer them to. But then also, is that a? You know, people sometimes think, oh, I want to email everyone and say, hey, this person's not good. They've gone and done this. Don't go to them. It's like, we can't do that. Like, that's an emotional response. And then on the flip side, like, you know, sometimes we get an email from someone and we think, I didn't know anything about this situation. And they've emailed their whole database. That can sometimes be confusing too. I gave an example of only that week last week that my son's kindergarten had sent out an email to say, hey, we've heard that there are some people who are not that happy with the before and after kinder program and we want to reassure you that they've got educated, qualified teachers in that program. And I was like, what? I didn't know that there was concerns. And so then it made me more unsettled rather than creating the certainty.

Jack O'Brien: Ben, I'm curious. You've heard the Toyota method of just-in-time. Have we spoken, Ben, about like, or can I explain the just-in-time versus just-in-place approach? Yeah, go for it. As health professionals, so if you're listening along, you're probably a health professional, clinic owner, and we are conditioned from the very first day we set foot in uni that you need to learn everything possible. You need to know every minutia of biophysiology and chemistry. You need to know the most obscure pathophysiology just in case it sets foot in your treatment room one day. And so there's this ingrained behaviour pattern of just-in-case learning. And sometimes we bring that to these responses, you know, let's call them critical incident responses, where we think, to your point at the daycare, Hannah, I need to tell everyone just in case they've read about it. And the reality is only half a dozen people know about it. I need to respond in this way just in case. And that's noble, right? That comes from a good place. often we need to think about well how can I do, let's flip it right, in a therapeutic sense we talk about what is the minimum effective dose of our treatments and in a response situation like this it's less about responding just in case and more about responding just in time with the minimum effective dose. If you can get away with a small segment of your database rather than the whole database minimum effective dose. Again, as health professionals, we're trained to think just in case. And this is true when it comes to learning, right? How many clinic owners come to us and they think, show me your course, how many modules are in your learning portal? And sometimes in jest, my response is, there's one module in the learning portal that is right for you right now and another and another. You need to learn just in time what the marketing strategy is to fill your books. You don't need to learn you know, financial management for clinics doing 10 mil plus, unless you get there. You don't need to learn that just in case.

Hannah Dunn: And I think that just brings an example to mind around clinical examples, being that sometimes our team, and you know, I've got 30 on my team, and so we sometimes have a loud voice in our clinic, and you think that that voice represents the view of everyone, and then all of a sudden you start crisis managing, you know, we've got to change our whole rewards program. We've got to change our whole pay structure. We've got to change the whole way we onboard clients or something along those lines before we collect the data. And so we need to ensure that we understand if it's an individual's crisis or if it's actually representative of the whole clinic and actually a problem at the systems.

Jack O'Brien: Is it representative of the true problem or is it just a symptom? Correct.

Ben Lynch: It's point two, right, on your four-part list of understand the reality. Is this reality for everyone or is it the reality for just someone? Not to dismiss it, but also not to feel like, as you said, I've got to change everything. JB, this is so true as well, not only in a learning sense, but in a development sense. how many clinic owners are trying to put all these policies and procedures in place that are often fringe things just in case something happens down the road. They heard a story at the summit or from someone on a discussion forum, they go, I should have that just in case it happens to me. Of course, there's always the nuance of you still need to build things for the future, but if everything is run through that filter, then you build this ever-growing to-do list that never really has a sorting function.

Jack O'Brien: And the reality is, Benny, that is a skill that is learned and refined, an intuition that's refined over time of being able to make a judgment call. And that's where often we're our own worst enemies. You need an external perspective. You need a coach, a business partner, a community to help you rationalize. We could do all of this just in case. What is right for me right now?

Ben Lynch: Yeah. that executive function of decision-making and just thinking through how you make decisions in your clinic. We spoke a little bit about Dorbz's session, Andrew Dordney, and empowering leaders to make decisions and actually documenting a framework through which they could make decisions with autonomy without needing approval, specifically around financial investments. But it was a really great example of being able to remove yourself as the bottleneck, especially in decision-making. Hannah and Jack, I'm interested in this one. And I realize we're talking about some of the key principles here, which are really useful because they are timeless and kind of span across any circumstance. And we're straddling the practicality here, but let's go to point three a little bit more, which is control the narrative. We've sort of talked a little bit about it, but how have you gone about controlling the narrative in a way that doesn't feel like you're gaslighting people or overlooking people? I realize there was the comment of like, Let's not bring up all the bits of the past because it probably isn't that productive, but we still need to address it because people have these questions in their mind that they need answered and still have the future pacing as well. I'm probably interested just in how you think about to what degree you share kind of the truth of what's happened. and still position it in a way that controls the narrative for the better. Hannah, having gone through this rather sensitive issue, I mean, all three were quite challenging that you said, the team member taking the clients, the COVID telehealth and the news headlines, so pick which one, but how did you go about finding that balance of controlling the narrative and still maybe answering some of the questions that you knew people would have?

Hannah Dunn: Yes, I think that understanding what it is and who it is you're sharing with, as we said before, and just sharing, as Jack was saying, like the just right amount, like what it is that you need to share, who you're sharing it with. And I think the example, the fourth example that I used at the end was around the forbidden topic of NDIS. And at that point, I think it's a good example in controlling the narrative. We don't know what's going to happen with NDIS at this stage, but I've already discussed with my team around what our options are, what I'm thinking, what I've put into place, who I've communicated with, because I think the people that need to know anything about any one of the situations or any situation you're experiencing, Is anyone who's going to witness you have more of a workload and need to understand the context behind that or see an impact that is happening in the clinic or feel an impact at a risk of their job or risk in the media or whatever, risk their own reputation, anything that affects the individual or the community or you is where we want to ensure that we're controlling that narrative and just getting ahead of any of those fears. I know that I've had a team member who was in a previous job where she turned up to work and the doors were locked and that clinic, it was two years ago, that clinic blamed NDIS funding for the reason they closed. Now, we know when we run business as well, it's not NDIS's fault you closed, it was mismanagement of funds. But that's not for a team member to understand. And so we know we need to be particularly delicate with that team member who's already had that experience when there's so much in the media around, you know, businesses are going to close, there's going to be no access to therapies, etc, etc. And so I think we need to be hyper aware about what our teams are hearing. and what impact we think that might have on them, whether that be from an NDIS perspective, whether that be maybe there's another story in that media that actually has nothing to do with you but relates to the client group that you work with and then that might be relevant for you to share a little bit more with your team or check in at least.

Jack O'Brien: I wonder if when people hear us talk about controlling the narrative, they think, ah, I see what you're doing. That sounds manipulative. Let me just speak to that. What we are doing here is being sensitive to the fact that there are many things that are true at the same time, and sometimes our team or our community can become hyper-fixated on minor things instead of the major things. So what we are doing is helping people, controlling the narrative, is helping people to major on the majors, keep the main thing the main thing. If we think back to COVID times, there's all kinds of hysteria. And even today, at the time of recording, there's hysteria about all sorts of weird and wonderful things in the world. So our clients or our team could focus on many things. How do we help them to focus on the things that matter? And so back in COVID times, we could focus on lockdowns, a five kilometer radius, this or injection that and blah, blah, blah. What was true, what was important was that healthcare was an essential service and that our clinics were safe and that, you know, for all the reasons, patients could continue their progress with their therapy or their healthcare. at that point, nothing else mattered. That was the major thing that we needed to major on and let the minor things be minor. And so when there's a scenario where you are unnecessarily implicated or, quote, crisis or whatever the case is, what we are trying to do is distill all of the truths down to what is the main truth that matters to help people move forward. And again, Hannah, I think you did this very well. And this is the art of good leadership and good communication. How do we communicate in a crisis or a high-pressure situation or let's say a dynamically responsive situation? We don't want to communicate too much nor too little. We don't want to major on minors, nor do we want to minor on majors. That's the art of Not just controlling the narrative, but ensuring people are equipped and resourced with the correct narrative for them.

Hannah Dunn: And I think the difference as to what you spoke to then around being, um, manipulative is that we're not saying, no, we're not telling you. Like we're, when people have questions, we're happy to chat through it as long as it's the right people. And they're not just, you know, seeking the drama or whatever it is that is happening. But, you know, really when you've got the right people around you and you've got that communication pathway, it's just around being able to, yeah, put forward the information that's relevant.

Jack O'Brien: You know, sensationalism and hysteria never serves folks well. And so maybe what we're actually saying when we say, quote, control the narrative, is let's not be given to hysteria and sensationalism, but let's be pragmatic and grounded in what truly matters in this scenario.

Hannah Dunn: Yes. And I think when you've got the next step of the path forward, it really allows us to exactly what you were saying. Like our path forward is that our services are essential. We're still able to do it. Let's focus on our solutions rather than focus on what the problem is that got us to this situation.

Jack O'Brien: Right, and we can focus on what we know is true because again, in these dynamic situations, there's a lot of things that might be true, right? Let's speak to what's happening at the time of recordings, the end of March 2026, and petrol prices could be tomorrow, they could be $1 or $5, no one really knows. And that's the point, no one really knows. But let's put it in an NDIS context and Mel Webber shared this in her talk, she's like, What we know will be true moving forward is that there will be children with physical disabilities, and that's who our clinic is positioned well to serve. And so it's like, let's not take what could be true, but what is true. And that's where we go forward. And again, I think DOTS does that incredibly well.

SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

Ben Lynch: Do you find yourself, Hannah and Jack, going with short, frequent communication rather than kind of, I don't know, waiting several days in these sort of peak moments? And maybe there's suspense, but you're able to give more details. You sort of have a perspective on when the heat is on, when there is something that is pressing. Do you find yourself with those shorter sound bites? Here's what we're working on. We'll be back to you by close of business today or within the next 24 hours. Or do you tend to say, no, let's wait until there's a little bit more certainty on a few things, and then come back to people with a longer form of communication, whether that's written or audible? Hannah, maybe from your experience, slash even your learnings, how do you think about it when the heat is on?

Hannah Dunn: I think about how much chatter is there going on in the clinic. Like if there's a huge amount of chatter, then absolutely we'll get everyone together, give them an update to where we're at and what we're doing moving forward. And that will, yeah, absolutely let them know more. If I feel like, you know, again, only two or three people know, we might just keep it a little bit quieter for a while and then let people know a bit further along.

Jack O'Brien: I like that. I think about how we can be proactive, not responsive. And so, can we be folks that are proactively ahead? And so, specifically to answer your question, Ben, I'd say clinics think about very small sound bites that reinforce the same message over and over. I mean, the practical reality is, if we're talking about community-related content or releases, is that there is a story feed, a 24-hour news cycle. People are being bombarded, and if you're not in the conversation, someone else is controlling the conversation or controlling the narrative. So you need to contribute and keep contributing to that narrative. It may be small, but you've got to keep going.

Ben Lynch: Well, part of that is in the narrative is like, okay, here's the situation and we want to formulate a way that we're going to talk about the situation and the narrative of that. There's also the part of controlling the narrative that, hey, we're actually doing something about this. We're working through it. Do you know what I mean? Because if they don't hear from you, then it's like, Do they know about this? Are they taking this seriously? What's going on? So even to the point of, hey, just to let you know, we're about to enter a meeting, or we've just finished a meeting, or we're currently working on this thing, and we'll be back to you by close of business with next steps. Whatever the case may be. So I think part of controlling the narrative is also, what are you doing about the narrative?

Jack O'Brien: Right. And this will sound counterintuitive, but this is a really helpful phrase for folks perhaps to remind themselves of. You can say something by saying nothing. You can come out and say, you might not add anything of substance, but just saying something to your point, Ben, highlights that we are aware. We're not doing anything, but we're aware of this situation, we'll keep you in the loop. You can say that a couple of times if you have to. We're aware and we'll keep you in the loop. We're aware and we'll keep you updated. But often saying, staying silent is not, is actually, it's not helpful.

Hannah Dunn: And I think the other thing when we relate it back to clinic owners, and I think that, you know, I'm probably at the top of the, I don't know, chart here, is if I hear there's rumblings of something in the clinic, like, you know, maybe you hear that someone's thinking about setting up their own practice or hearing that they might want to go out. I will address that straight away. Like that is the sort of controlling the narrative of like getting in, having a difficult conversation with someone. What we hear so often is, I'd sort of heard murmurs of X, Y, and Z happening, but then I didn't want to say anything. I didn't want to rock the boat. And then all of a sudden it's a big issue. And that could be a number of things. It could be like a huge client exit or whatever it is that, you know, you've experienced in your clinic. But I think just anytime that there's something that feels a bit uncomfortable, I think it's important to start to talk about it.

Ben Lynch: Good point. We experienced this on day two of the summit, you know, with some of the lunch items and the dietary stuff as well. So it feels very, very recent for us. These things are going to happen. And what I love is the simplification, the distillation of four parts here. Hannah, which is, you know, the emotional response, the time and space between it, understand the reality, get the facts on the table. Number three, control the narrative. I wrote down, it's almost like a tailored message to a specific audience. And really, for mine, that is in one word, relevance. You mentioned that, Hannah, a few times. What is the relevant message to the clients? What's the relevant message to the team? What's the relevant message to the leadership team or the other directors? And then finally, build the path forward. What are we going to do? a really practical framework for folks that might be navigating a crisis right now, or keep it up your sleeve for when the inevitable does happen, however big or small it is. Any closing remarks from you both? As we do, folks can head over to clinkmastery.com forward slash podcast for the show notes and all previous recordings. Any closing remarks from you, Hannah, and then we'll go to you, Jack.

Hannah Dunn: think you'll feel like this event is massive, but in the future you will struggle to remember the details of it. So time and space absolutely does heal things and you will get through these tricky times.

Jack O'Brien: I love that, Hannah, and welcome to the job. You signed up as a clinic owner to be a professional firefighter and the fires go from a match to a lighter to a campfire to a bushfire and that's okay. That's the joy that we get to serve people through these crises and come out the other side knowing that we're helping more people and amplifying our impact.

Ben Lynch: The hard truth is that so much of our leaps in growth come from painful challenges just like this, right? As confronting as that is. So thank you so much for sharing. This is not maybe the glossy stuff of filling your books and practitioner mentoring and all the great things of creating great client experiences and team member experiences, but this is also the reality of what it is to run a business as you both said. So thank you for sharing so openly and we'll continue the conversation around Communication, because Hannah, that is one of the core values at your clinic, right, is good communication solves everything. Is that how you articulate it these days? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Close. Close enough. Three weeks to the event. Well, we'll catch folks on another episode very soon. Bye-bye. Bye.