Ben Lynch: G'day, good people. Welcome to the Grow Your Clinic podcast by Clinic Mastery. Here's what's coming up inside of this episode. This episode will be right up your Allie if you're looking to get more time back. We're diving into finding freedom from your business. And trust me, you want to hear Mic's take on how he structured his week without sacrificing family time or finances. Plus, stick around for when we discuss the immediate changes you can make in your business to get more time starting from next week.

Mic Rizk: Four years in I retired from everything and became an Uber driver and I wasn't that happy. I'm happier now with more responsibility and more time. So it's not freedom from work, it's freedom to work. Freedom, a privilege to be earned first or can we have it at the start of our clinic?

Ben Lynch: What are some of the changes we could make so that when you go to the playground with the kids you're fully focused?

Mic Rizk: A really healthy starting point is putting some restrictions on your calendar.

Jack O'Brien: What can you survive on? What are you willing to leave on the table for the future growth of the business?

Ben Lynch: If actually they don't want to own a business and they're trying to escape it, it's okay to look for a pathway to exit.

Mic Rizk: Because what you described, Jack, is exactly what I wanted. But when I started, I didn't know those numbers.

Ben Lynch: Before we dive in, today's episode is brought to you by AllieClinics.com. If you're the kind of clinic owner who loves to feel organized and stay ahead of the chaos, you'll love Allie. Think of it as your digital clone. It's the single source of truth for all your clinic's policies, systems, and training. Test it for free at AllieClinics.com. And, in other news, applications are now open to work with us one-on-one at Clinic Mastery. If you want support to grow your clinic and bring your vision to life, just email hello@clinicmastery.com with the subject line podcast, and we'll line up a time to chat. Let's get into the episode. It is episode 371. My name is Ben Lynch. I'm back with Michael Rizk owner of iMove and the Physio Apprenticeship, and Jack O'Brien, business partner and former physio. Lads, great to be back with you before I enjoyed last episode. We're going to have you on as a regular Mic, which I'm really looking forward to because of all the folks on the team, I think you're one of the best at articulating what you're thinking. It's very raw. It's unfiltered. And I know at times it rubs people the wrong way, but mostly people reach out and say, I love the just authenticity of what you speak about. And so many of your posts resonate with clinic owners at various stages in their career. And one notable thing that you wanted to discuss today, you said, we got to talk about what freedom looks like. I think it's a conversation that I have one-on-one in a lot of coaching sessions. And it's something that a lot of clinic owners want more from their business. They want more freedom from their business. And let's talk about the actual cost of that. So that's what we're going to get into in a moment. But J.O.B., anything on the news desk before we jump right in?

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, a couple of things. First of all, thank you to those who share the podcast. There's a strong up and to the right on both listens and viewers over on YouTube. So please come and join us over on the YouTubes. Leave us a comment on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or YouTube. We would love that. If you're in the United States, get in touch. We are coming and I will visit you and also for our members, we're coming with various range of meetups around the countryside this year. So there's plenty happening on the inside for members, a whole bunch more content coming down the pipes, AI stuff, meetups. It's all systems go. So please get in touch, subscribe, and leave us a comment.

Ben Lynch: Very nice. Well, Mic, do you want to open with this quote that you've just sent through on the chat? Just help us understand the conversations that you're having, perhaps the thinking that you've also had when it comes to your own business and the freedom element to it.

Mic Rizk: Yeah, I was thinking about this episode and the thought that came up, which I've written here is freedom, a privilege to be earned first. Or can we have it at the start of our clinics? And I think the common mindset is when I get to, when I get to this rev, when I get to this profit, when I get to this team members, then I'll be able to work a four day week or then I'll be able to take holidays. And maybe we can dig into doing that the other way around.

Ben Lynch: Well, it's interesting. One of the things, Joby, you and I love talking about, you know, definitions. And so when I think of freedom, naturally I go to, well, once you've started your own business, there's a lot of freedom in your decision-making. Like you are, the buck stops with you. You have the freedom to make a number of different decisions about who you hire, where you open, the types of service, what you charge. What do you mean though, Mic, when you talk about freedom, is it purely like an hours thing?

Mic Rizk: Yeah, I think, can you sleep at night, financial freedom, ATO freedom and having the right finances allocated in the right spot and being able to design your week, your business, your life with your family. All of those things come into it when I talk about freedom, I think.

Jack O'Brien: Well, it's interesting, right? Because freedom is relative and subjective and it's also fleeting. It's kind of that pursuit of like, oh, I'll be rich when. There's never enough as the book by Andrew Wilkinson or Enough by Jack Bogle, two of my favorite books, incidentally, very similar topics. So, there's always more freedom to be had whether that's financial or time or freedom of choice, freedom from responsibility. But do we want freedom from responsibility? Personally, no. I want more responsibility. That is freedom to serve and contribute and make a difference. So, it's really interesting how it's fleeting and relative. You ask someone who perhaps has a little less freedom than you and they would say, clearly, you've got it all. Yet, we feel change to our business and living paycheck to paycheck as some would describe it. It's a fascinating mindset perspective.

Ben Lynch: Well, Mic, you mentioned a few different areas around the financial element, the time element. Where do you want to go? What's at the heart of this for you? maybe personally and make that distinction or what you're hearing with all the clinic owners that you work with when it comes to the freedom element and perhaps even in my observation and to this point Often people haven't actually thought about what it means and means specifically to them and they just say, I just want more freedom from the business. And you can already see the nuance. As you said, it's relative and subjective and there's multiple ways, actually categories to think about it. So Mic, talk to me about how you think about it predominantly yourself or for the clinic owners, what do you hear commonly?

Mic Rizk: Yeah, I think what Jack just touched on is super important and that would be a great goal or action from this podcast is to think about your definition. No responsibility and lots of time is not the formula for a healthy human. And I wonder if you can get more time and more responsibility that that might be an ultimate goal. Four years in, I retired from everything and became an Uber driver and I wasn't that happy. So I got a lot of time and less responsibility and I'm happier now with more responsibility and more time. That's very high level. I think starting with high level and reverse engineering it. But I think practically on the ground, the first thing I'd love to see from even startup clinics is putting some restrictions on your diary, even if that means I'm only going to consult three or four days or even if that means I'm going to have Friday off consulting and business work, but that's my day where I don't do either. I think a really healthy starting point is putting some restrictions on your calendar that will provide a lot of structure, rhythm, space to think, space to work on the good things and rest is recovery as a business owner as well. So very practically on ground, the first step is I'd challenge business owners to think about their calendar and if they can restrict that in some way, maybe it's a four-day week, maybe I'm going to work Monday to Thursday.

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, I think I agree, Mic, and let's keep it practical, but I do want to come back to maybe some of the philosophical side of things. But practically, I remember I did this early on in my clinic owner journey. It was one of the first things I did was take Fridays off. And it wasn't because I needed Fridays off. It was more the exercise of essentially constraint-based thinking. How can I compress what I do and be more productive? Essentially, the same output in a shorter number of hours and it's a forcing function to be able to empower our team, create more systems. We often describe with members, it's like, okay, well, how long can you take away from your clinic? Will it burn down if you leave it for two or three hours? Can you get away for a day, a week, a month, a term? Can you depart your clinic for six months or a year? It's a test and a forcing function in that sense, but I want listeners to pick up that part of this is super real and practical, but also it's a thought exercise, what would happen, what needs to be true in order to make one day a week, for instance, true.

Ben Lynch: I think a layer to that as well, I hear it as time. So how much time am I working in or on the business if you want to use those sort of parameters? And it's like I have a day off where I'm broadly not thinking about it. I'm not going into the clinic as an example. One of the common bits of freedom that I think a number of clinic owners have to navigate early on in their journey and ongoing really, but it's pointing at the start. is freedom from certain tasks or roles that they end up having to do because of the state of their business, but they don't really enjoy doing. They don't want to do it. Maybe they're not the best person at it either. And so you might end up working the same 40, 50-hour week, but some of the tasks start to shift off your plate. And we've talked before about recruiting admin or recruiting the next therapist or outsourcing to virtual assistants or agencies, whoever that might be, but actually shifting some of the tasks off my plate. I might work the same amount of hours, maybe I work more. But I want to get rid of some of the things that I just, I look at my diary or my task list and I just loathe. I think, yeah, got to do that. And that's varied for everyone. So. Mic. Let's continue down the time element before we go to the financial element. They're so interlinked because like a clinic owner, especially early on in their journey will say, yeah, but it's such a luxury to have, you know, just say, take time off, but I actually need money in the door, which is seeing patients. Can you take us back as clearly as you can recall how you started to make some of those decisions, consider some of those trade-offs?

Mic Rizk: Yeah. I wonder how Jack got there, but for me, it was reading the material I was reading and looking up to the mentors that I had around me and they were encouraging to do this from the start. So part of it is a gamble. You're like, am I going to listen to people saying this is an inherently healthy thing? Even if it means you're leaving some money on the table at the start of your business, and there might be a caveat to that, that you might be seeing five less patients, but the time and space to think about how to grow your business, maybe you aren't leaving money on the table. Maybe you're sacrificing $500 of consulting for that Friday morning you're having off, but you're probably gaining much more in future finances by having that time and space. So I just chose to believe that. Very early on, and it was something we'd done very early on. And for me, it came from the four-hour workweek, which in the four-hour workweek, you described starting as four days a week, four hours. four hours a day for four days a week and then cutting that down. So, I just bought onto that very early on.

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, that was a really formative book for me. Again, the principles more than the specific practicalities. I'm not working four hours a week just to make sure that's on the record. Ben, you'll be pleased about that. But I think to that point, Mic, We talk about the financial needs that we all have and being specific especially in the early days of what can you survive on. What are you willing to leave on the table for the future growth of the business? Obviously, this is somewhat timely because of recent budget conversations around founders and startups and owners who don't take a salary or don't take much. My suggestion to clinic owners is to think about what's the minimum you need? What are your basic living expenses? not lifestyle expenses, living expenses and can you work your business to a place where the profit covers your living expenses because remember as a clinic owner we're taking both the salary for the work we do and profit for the business we own and sometimes that profit is zero and you simply get paid the salary for the work you do. And over time, we want to see those swing. And so, this is how I thought about it early in my journey to your question, Mic, of, okay, well, over time, I want to reduce the amount of work I do in my business, reduce my salary for the work I do as my profit increases. And so, really, the profitability of your business will dictate how much or little you maybe need to work.

Ben Lynch: I like it. The challenge is asking better questions of yourself, right, isn't it? And some of those constraints are even just useful for the mental exercise, even if you don't act on it, as you're suggesting, J.R.B. as well. The thing that I found really useful, I keep revisiting, I think about flow a lot and like, am I in flow in my day and in my week? I feel like There's elements and I've read a bit of Seth Godin where he's like, you don't wait for flow. It kind of happens from the doing of the thing. I thought that was a really interesting reframe and distinction. But so much for me has been about crafting the structure of the day or the week to try and facilitate that more regularly than not. I even found doing it when I was a therapist. A practitioner, I would, in a similar way to you guys, I would work massive down a Tuesday, a half down a Wednesday, and a massive down a Thursday, like 7 a.m. till 7 p.m. It meant Mondays and Fridays were actually free and available. I preferred doing that. I found I got clinically into a float massively. And then those other days were opportunities for me to work on different things or just have time off, as you said. So I found that carried through early into the business journey as well. A couple of things that have really helped me behind have often referenced the clouds and the dirt from Gary Vee. The clouds being that strategic, high-level thinking time, sort of the vision. A strategy, where are we going in three months or three years? And then the dirt is like, you're just in doing the thing, you know, seeing and serving patients, working with clinic owners in this context, whatever it may be. And I actually found doing like a week on week off. I've talked about this before, the FIFO model. I was speaking with my dad at a Christmas and this was several years ago. I'd never heard of the FIFO term, fly in, fly out. And so it's like you fly in, he works on the mines in the mining sector, and so you would fly in for a week, there'd be a massive wake, you're kind of doing 12-hour shifts, but you know you're just doing that thing. You broadly don't have to worry about anything else. And then when you come back, when you sort of fly out of that work destination back home, you've got a full week broadly with all the freedom to do whatever you need to do, maybe some chores around the house or do some fun things, whatever it might be. And I thought, that's a really cool concept, I'm going to try it in my working sort of fortnight. One week where it's just like heavy meetings, it's contact time, and then a week where it's like zoom out big picture. The things that I consider super fun and I get a lot of joy and flow out of doing. Um, so there are a couple of things that I found useful in the, in the sort of the structure of the time and then the organization of the tasks that give me creative freedom and time freedom in at least how I think about it. Nick, have you done anything more recently in the way that you structure up your time or your tasks to kind of, I don't know, feel that sense of freedom that you're talking about having?

Mic Rizk: Yeah, I love what you said and it brought me right back to there's probably clinic owners right now seeing 50 patients a week thinking, how do I do this? And maybe you've just presented the first natural step. Is there a challenge there where they can see their 50 in two and a half days or three instead of four and then leave the third or fourth day just for big picture, just for your key actions? I reckon that there would be a lot of clinic owners right now that are working four or five days and could do it in three or four. So they're not leaving any money on the table and they get some of their time back. And as you were speaking, I just took some notes here, but blocking by task, it would be the next practical step. If you have team meetings and mentoring meetings or reviews, put them all on the same day. I find it very difficult. I think the on-ground experiences clinic owners find it very difficult when you've got two meetings on a Monday, two meetings on a Tuesday, one on Wednesday afternoon because you never get into any flow.

Ben Lynch: Yes.

Mic Rizk: So, there's two really practical things that I think would be the first steps to freedom there.

Ben Lynch: And part of that to me, in my experience, has been the tax that I pay for context switching, which is If I can just do this one thing deeply in the clinical sense, it was like, I know I'm just fully here for my patients from like seven till seven. That's my focus. I'm not thinking about anything else. I personally found it really useful just to stay in that zone. and just operate it when there's like half a day and then the next half a day is on like admin or marketing or finance or whatever. Personally, I found that that wasn't conducive to doing good work for me. And at the moment, I still do like I don't take meetings broadly on a Monday or a Friday because then it allows me to set up for the rest of the week and then finish the week sort of in control and closing loops. I continue to revisit it, but J.I.B., how do you think about this at the moment? I realize, as you said, Jack, there are some principles here, and perhaps they're the most important thing in this, because people are at different stages. But then we want to also propose some practical guidance, some steps that you could consider. Maybe I'll try that, or maybe I'll try a version of that for me. Just talk us through where you're at even for yourself in thinking about how you manage your time, the creative freedom, the freedom to have the highest impact work in your working week.

Jack O'Brien: There's two probably principles that I want to touch on here and we talk about so many clinic owners come to us and say a version of, I want more time. And what they're actually saying is they want more, you know, balance isn't the right word, but they want more harmony and more alignment in their week. Because the reality is there is no more time, right? You can't manufacture time. You can always get more money and get more things, but you can't get more time. So what you actually say, if you're a clinic owner who thinks, I just need more time, What you are saying is I need to realign and reprioritize so that I am more satisfied with how I'm spending my time. Time is a budget function. What that might mean is a little less time on work-related things, a little more time on family-related things. In fact, maybe you don't need less time on work. Maybe you just need less time on Netflix or doom scrolling on Instagram or TikTok. Maybe you need more time exercising. It's not about less work, it's perhaps more of the other things. Nevertheless, when we say we want more time, what we actually mean is we need more alignment. And so what does that look like for me personally? I love, we work with our members on an ideal week exercise or a default diary exercise. So often, the error in thinking is that you do this once and it's one and done. We do it in a spreadsheet. I've now got 47 tabs. Now, that number is an arbitrary number, but there is dozens, literally dozens of tabs because the point is that we constantly iterate what our time-blocked week looks like so that over time, there's a trend line towards a more ideal week. Because again, ideal is fleeting and ideal is transient. It changes with life season or complexity or kids or hunger, whatever the case may be. So for me, it's a once a month review of what is my default week for this week, for this month, and then I can review that again in a month's time.

Ben Lynch: It's interesting how we each think about it in similar ways but also subtly different ways, right? For me, so much of that definition of freedom is around like creation, creative freedom, the ability to have more time where I feel like I'm creating something. I find I'm in flow. It feels valuable to the team or to a member or a client to create something, a resource, an asset, a process, a system, whatever that might be to create some value. I find when I'm able to create more of that, because at the end of the day, Like I, I really enjoy thinking about business. I really enjoy reading, learning. Most of my weekends are consumed by it. I don't think of it as work because I, it's like a hobby for me. I enjoy it. And so maybe, you know, offer a. perspective for some folks that go, I don't mind working 60, 70 hours, you know, because most people want to work 20 or 30 and that's okay as well. So, I think it's interesting when you think about the freedom definition for you. And for me, it's like the freedom to do some of those tasks and roles gives me a lot of energy. So, that's the relative and subjective element, J.O.B., that you touched on.

Jack O'Brien: To speak to that point, even this year, we've invested more in a nanny and a chaplain for our kids so that I've got the freedom to continue to work and work more, right? So, it's not freedom from work, it's freedom to work because I want to have my kids around at home and I want to be able to pour myself out for work and supporting clinic owners. That's what I love to do. Why would I try and escape this thing? I'd do it if I didn't get paid. I love being paid. But we love what we do, right? And so, it's not work, this is purpose. And to that point earlier, it's like You know, freedom isn't necessarily a reward, it's freedom for responsibility. I think Pat Lencioni says that, right? Leadership isn't a reward, it's a responsibility and a burden. And so we want more freedom to pursue more responsibility.

Ben Lynch: Well, you know what you're prompting for me, and I'm really interested in your response to this, Mic, is For the clinic owners that are really like, I do want more time and I want more freedom is maybe the natural extension of that but actually they don't want to own a business. They don't actually want all the things that come with it and they're trying to escape it and actually maybe they've got themselves in this position that's like maybe if we take it to the nth degree, You're actually not cut out for what's required. And that's okay. That's okay. But there's a lot that comes with it that becomes apparent, you know, once you start adding team members and layers and complexity and you go, Oh, I thought I was going to have all this time to redefine how healthcare is delivered in psychology or OT or physio. And, you know, that vision kind of died on day one because all these logistics got in the way. Now that's not true for everyone, but there's a lot that comes to reality when you have a business and then people get into the position where they say, I want more time. And it's like, maybe you're actually trying to escape your business.

Jack O'Brien: I'll jump in before Mic does, Benny. Well, if you're a clinic owner and you crave a 38-hour work week and paid sick days and paid public holidays and the ability to just log off, slack an email at 5.30 p.m., what you crave is an employment job. And that's okay if that's where you're best suited. And look, the grass is always greener on the other side. But when we sign up to be clinic owners and business owners, what we crave is impact and the ability to be in control of our time and to lead others and build something of substance and to take nothing for years so that one day there's a good payoff and we can tip elbow for the privilege. This is why we do what we do. We don't crave a nine to five. Mic, what do you think about that?

Mic Rizk: just thought about the infinite game and there's no winning. It's just staying in the game and then constantly taking these tasks we don't love off our plate so we can keep doing the vision tasks that really light us up. That's what came through as you guys were chatting.

Ben Lynch: But part of the thing, and we talk a lot about business, the three of us, we love it. And there's also lots of challenges that you have to face. And there are days, and Mic, I remember a really great post that you had put out about the bitter clinic owner. Do you remember that one? The clinic, maybe it was around like team retention slash, you know, team members leaving, right? It resonated massively with folks. I think we did an episode on it maybe a year or so ago. Perhaps it's also an opportunity for clinic owners who are really struggling with things that aren't enjoying it. to say that it's okay to look for a pathway to exit because there's this kind of sickness that is enjoying the challenges, the stress of it, and the highs of it. To your point, Jaco, and I loved your talk at the summit about this. You do a better recall than I am, but it left a great impression on me.

Mic Rizk: Yeah, yeah. For the joy set before us.

Ben Lynch: Yeah, for the sacrifice side, but I also know and we've spoken to those clinic owners that maybe they've been doing it a few years, maybe they've been doing it a few decades and they're just like, I'm over it. I do want the certainty of $120,000, $150,000 and to be able to log off at 5pm and not worry about these things. So I feel like there's a part of this story, which is also like, if we're coming back to what's your version of success or your desire statement, that for a lot of folks, that actually might mean passing on the clinic to someone else and going back to an employed role. I want to make sure, I'm interested in your reaction, that that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Jack O'Brien: I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I think we as clinic owners get to define the life that we choose to live and it's not that being a clinic owner is more noble than being a practitioner or being a clinic owner is no more noble than being somewhere in corporate CBD somewhere or a SaaS tech founder startup. None of these are more or less significant or noble. What is significant is that you know why you're on the planet and you design a life that is in alignment with your purpose. That's the key here. If this isn't what is lighting you up and if the hard things don't light you up, I think that's the test, right? All the easy, nice, fluffy things light us all up. That's a piece of cake. But if the hard things don't Because it's not about happiness, right? Happiness is tied to happenings. But if our joy is found in the grind and the challenging things, and that's where we find ultimately fulfillment, that's when you know you're in the right spot.

Ben Lynch: So Mic, you sent this post to us saying, we've got to talk about freedom, the freedom side of the equation here for clinic owners. Where do you want to go with this? Because we've got the finance side of things, which we're starting to allude to. And it's a real stressor for a lot of clinic owners. They often do end up earning less than their team members or their highest performing team members for a period.

Mic Rizk: As you guys were talking, it's all the same pathway. Even if you've identified that maybe you're actually after an employee model, what I've written here is it's all the same pathway. Constrain your week so you can give yourself back some big thinking time and work on the business time. That will allow you to get the tasks that are wasting your time or aren't lighting you up off your plate, which will then allow you to do more of the tasks that do fill you up, which will then accelerate your work. It's going to force you to offload some of these tasks to admin or a VA team. Now, all of that is the same pathway to either grow your business, get more time freedom, realize you're an employee or sell your business. So, if you were feeling how Ben was just describing, what I say to clinic owners on coaching is give yourself one year, but let's go really hard at optimizing your week and putting these constraints on your week. Because at the end of that year, you will have more time, you will have outsourced a lot of the things you don't like to do, you'll be working more on the things you do like to do. And if you're still feeling that way, that's a sign from the universe, you're probably not meant to be doing this. But either way, you've just increased the value of your business. So I love how this conversation can go really high level into kind of stoicism and Buddhism, which we can finish off because I was really interested in what Jack just said, but then really practical without sourcing to VAs and team CPDs.

Ben Lynch: What do you mean, the Stoicism-Buddhism piece?

Mic Rizk: Well, my final notes for today were like Stoicism and Buddhism, or Homozy versus Tony Robbins, for those who caught that interview. I think, you know, one of the early literatures I read was Stoicisms, I mean, Ryan Halliday's work. But I've always been attracted to Buddhism, and my wife's family practices Buddhism. And Buddhism is very much expectations equals unhappiness and never wanting for more. And wanting for more is what causes happiness. It's the constant wanting, which I like that. I like that as a philosophy because that actually brings peace. If you're not wanting more, you're at peace with where you are. But the paradox of that If you're never wanting, I feel like it can lead to not striving. And if you're not striving in business, your business is dying. So I don't know where I land on that. It depends what day I wake up. But actually, I think holding both perspectives is really healthy. It's like, I want to strive and be better, but I'm also at peace with what's happening now. And this kind of, this was a theme for me in the Homozy Tony Robbins podcast. Omosie is very much like, it should be hard. It should be suffering. That's what leads to great things. And Tony said, if you've told yourself the story that business should be hard for 30 years, what do you think business will be like? It's going to be hard. And I found that kind of two philosophies at different ends of the spectrum that I often think about, but don't have an answer. So I'm interested in your perspectives.

Jack O'Brien: I can't wait to see the Hormoses have kids. It's going to be so fun.

Ben Lynch: That will be. Yeah. What's your take, Jodie, on that? You've thought a lot about this over the years and practice a lot of different things. What's your take on that?

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, it's that tension of peace and ambition. It's holding these two things in tension. It's gratitude for where things are and accepting things where they are, being grateful for what that is, but also a healthy ambition. We are living organisms. If we're not growing, we're dying. If we're not going forwards, we're going backwards. There needs to be an element of that, but it has to come from the right motivation. It has to come from a healthy place of purpose, not selfishness or ego. We talk about clinics for good. If you're part of the good people that want to build a clinic for good and amplify your impact, then that is a healthy good ambition that contributes to your family and the world around you. And so it's, yeah, it's both of those things, intention.

Ben Lynch: We so often talk about it, isn't it? Being able to hold different things, maybe, um, intention, as you said, Jack, at different times. Um, it's, it's complex, it's colourful, it's dynamic. It's, it's a great challenge. I enjoy, maybe to your question, Mic, at different times, I've definitely thought about these things that you brought up and. One of the things that I've realized for myself is that I really like the art of the practice. I think maybe Seth Godin had sort of written a book, maybe, yeah, it was called The Practice, I think it was. And in doing some degree of self-reflection, I don't know if you guys caught any of the Andreessen Horowitz, Mark Andreessen recently on a number of podcasts talking about not doing a lot of reflection, just focusing purely moving forward. And he was sort of maybe asked the question by David Senra about, what do you see in some of the best founders and entrepreneurs and business owners? And it's just like this heavy bias towards just get on with the future rather than spend too much time reflecting on the past. It's a very interesting conversation. I suggest folks go check that out if you're really interested in what some of the best founders do in the world. That podcast by David Center is great called The Founders. Just that focus on honing the craft, like what's the thing in front of you? What can I kind of control right now? Not getting too sort of ahead of myself or behind. It's like today, I've got a couple of things I want to do them with focus. and ideally some sort of dedication to improving the craft. That's what's helped me, I think, over a number of periods where there's a lot of external, whether it's a COVID thing or Changes in the landscape or team staff is like, what are the controllables? And come back to sort of the refinement of the art, the refinement of how decisions are made, the refinement of how a process is created. and enjoying the practice of the thing and not being so caught up on the outcome necessarily.

Jack O'Brien: It's a good distinction, Benny, because it's like, again, there's so many paradoxes and thoughts and ideas in tension and that is a skill of a good business owner is to be able to hold to things like we are our own boss, we're in control of our own time and you can choose to do whatever you want. But more often than not, you're going to have to choose to do the thing that you don't want to do or that no one else wants to do or the hard thing. And in those moments, have gratitude for the fact that you get to do this and this makes you better and that's the practice that we get to refine. This is such a challenge where we're saying, be in control and design your week the way you want it to be. do the thing that you don't want to do because that's how you get better as a person and how your business can grow. Sometimes I think we shy away from or ignore some of the real realities. I don't know if that's – it's two words where they could have just been one. If we ignore the realities of what it looks like to be a business owner, yes, you get to have Fridays off if you choose and take more time, control your clinical diary. But also, I often go through this exercise. Mic, I'm curious how you think about this. If a clinic owner comes and says, I'd love to earn $300,000 and work three days a week. Okay, cool. Well, what that probably looks like is a salary of give or take $60,000, $80,000 for your three days a week. And so therefore, you're going to need to make 250 odd thousand dollars of profit. Cool. If your business is going to do 20% net profit, let's call that standard for healthy clinics. It's not the industry average, but it's the standard for healthy clinics. You're going to need a business that does 1.2 to 1.3 mil of revenue while you work 3 days a week. That looks like probably 5, maybe 6 full-time equivalent therapists. Given the space that you have, you're going to need 2 locations. Given the part-time nature of the workforce, you're going to need 10 therapists. And you're going to have to invest probably $200,000 in a fit out and maybe 50 to 100 grand a year in CPD and equipment for your team. And those three days a week that you work are mostly going to be spent putting out fires, paying bills, and spending time navigating people challenges. Are you sure? Now, it'll be the ride of your life and I would say sign on the dotted line instantly because you'll froth it and it's how we amplify our impact. But are you sure? Because that is what we're signing up for. Not three days a week and pina coladas on the beach while 300 grand magically appears in my bank account.

Mic Rizk: Yes.

Jack O'Brien: Yes. Know what you sign up for, right, Nick? How many folks are blind to what they're actually getting in for because it's the ride of our life. This is what we wake up juiced to do every day.

Mic Rizk: It ain't easy. I'll say that that's the most powerful exercise that a good coach, mentor, consultant can do for you and that can be an action from listening to this podcast is come to your mentors with what you think you want. And the three of us and the other same consultants can literally reverse engineer it that quickly. And it's all that information in between. We might not actually, or we don't know when we're starting a clinic. Because what you described, Jack, is exactly what I wanted. But when I started, I didn't know those numbers. I didn't know that, okay, 300k net profit means a clinic of eight full-time clinicians or six full-time clinicians without admin, which means this, which means this, which means this, which means is the first space that you've leased the right size to get you to that goal. So that exercise that you just did, reverse engineering with a mentor or someone who's done it before, I actually think is the most important thing.

Jack O'Brien: and to keep reminding ourselves this is, and when we're banging on with clinic owners of like, you need to be always recruiting, because we're not just thinking about like the 17 white spaces in your diary currently. We're helping, we're two and three steps ahead of you thinking, hang on a minute, this person said they wanna donate 100 grand a year to a charity and work four days a week to be with their kids. We're gonna need to recruit nine therapists over the next three years. We're recruiting today for the next nine Not just to service the seven people on your waiting list. That's the power of a team around you.

Ben Lynch: So then to what degree has your definition or what you're pursuing changed in light of some of the real realities coming to life at J-O-B and you getting in the mix and saying what you like and dislike Mic. When you started out compared to where you are now, how much has it changed or has it been a bit of a north star for you? Maybe just add some colour to the journey of changing that. Your definition of success, I think, depending on the season, changes. You start to have kids or maybe not, or maybe you're taking care of a sick parent. or not, or maybe you've got your own health challenges or not. Like there's so many things that come to bear just in life that then ultimately your business needs to sort of accommodate and shape around. So I think perhaps one of the points is, and why we emphasize revisiting this so regularly, at least annually, you know, what do I want from my business as you said, Nick, but how has it changed for you?

Mic Rizk: Space and mental freedom. has been the shift, the arbitrary things of working a four-day week and earning 300 or 400K. That was something I always started with that was strong. And then you can tick off some of those milestones, but maybe not be as mentally free or as present as you could be in the other moments. And I've written here, you might have Friday off, but if you're thinking about work all of Friday, you don't really have it off. So freedom to me, how? Well, how it's changed for me is mental freedom and the practice of being present and that comes through in gratitude. It comes through in having my team members do certain roles. It comes through in having very clear meeting rhythms. So if a problem arises, I know, you know what, I don't have to deal with that now. That's booked in Monday at 8. That's when I talk to that team member.

Ben Lynch: Nice.

Mic Rizk: So the little things like that along the way have helped and then The early learning for me was I did get down to a two day work week or even a zero day work week. And that wasn't freedom. You know, I go to Japan eight to 12 weeks a year, not to not work, but just because it fulfills me. And I do work from Japan. Like I, I don't want to not work leaning on what Jack's point was earlier. And for me, there's a huge gratitude and fulfillment in working in a different environment. It lights me up. I start thinking about AI. I'll start thinking about innovation. I start leaning into corners of my business that I hadn't before. And that's space and having that space allows my brain to go to different places, which to me is freedom. Thinking about all those different areas in my business, I love that, that fulfills me. So that's changed from pure time freedom to having space to work on different areas.

Ben Lynch: I remember having a session with David, a physiotherapist, a clinic owner, and we were having a similar conversation and we really got to the core of it. And he said, you know what? One of the biggest challenges right now is that when I spend time with my kids, like notably at the playground, I'm not there. Like I'm just not present. I'm thinking about all these things about the business, even though I've got time with the kids and just being able to be fully present would be amazing. And so we actually set that as an intention and as a focus over the subsequent weeks of what are some of the changes we could make so that when you go to the playground with the kids. You're fully there, you're fully focused. And so that really resonates, Mic, when you talk about you might have the time off, but you're still fully absorbed. And for me at various times, I've found actually that's okay. I've tried not to be too harsh or critical on myself. You know, maybe to some degree it's disruptive in like that instance where you're with the kids and you're not as present as you ought to be missing some of those moments, but in the vein of being like quote off, but still thinking about it. And this is much more around my personal preferences. I enjoy thinking like business is my hobby. Does that make sense? Which maybe sounds weird and isn't true for a lot of people. Like maybe you're into knitting or cooking or something, but I enjoy thinking about business. I just, I really love, and that comes back to some of that, the practice side of things. But J.B. in a similar vein, how has your definition of freedom in this conversation, how has it changed like Mic articulated?

Jack O'Brien: Yeah, freedom isn't nothingness. There's times for empty diary space. Look, some of us are wired differently to others, so let's call that out firstly. That's good. I'd say for me, an empty diary is necessary from time to time. as a refueling moment, but a constantly empty diary ends up being filled with junk. We do something with our time, so we might as well do something purposeful with our time. For me, it's less about the pursuit of emptiness and more about, I want the freedom for what? Do I want the freedom to be able to work on the things that I love to work on and maybe do less of the things that I don't love or aren't in flow or a bit of a grind? Maybe I want freedom to contribute to meaningful causes. So me having a little bit of flexibility in my week allows me to sit on a board here or contribute. to a national strategy and a charity there and play those roles. Freedom looks like being able to take the kids to and from footy training or ballet. So, having freedom for deliberate things really matters and inversely, I think when we think about the personal hobbies or things we do for enjoyment or fulfillment outside of work, being really intentional about what time we want or need for those things. I don't want more time just to sit around and watch Netflix. That doesn't sound exciting or fulfilling for me. Now, do I want to spend quality time with my wife and we share similar interests? So yeah, maybe a night or two a week. watching something meaningful, but outside of that, maybe I want to work over nighttime or exercise. So, freedom is very intentional about how we allocate.

Ben Lynch: I think there's a family thread for us to unpack on another episode here of the family time because we've got young kids and there's plenty going on in a home setting and how you sort of interweave the the business and family life. We might pick that up on another episode. But Mic, is there anything else here that you wanted to cover before we put a wrap on this episode? It looks like we've covered a lot of the bullet points you'd sent through. So these are the things we want to talk about when it comes to freedom because there's so much nuance to add here. For folks listening and especially members, go check out the Learning Portal and do the Ideal Week exercise again. We've got the templates there for you and bring that into your next coaching session. But Mic, Is there anything else here that we need to touch on before we wrap?

Mic Rizk: I think if you haven't had time to think about this, that could be a signal that something needs to change about your week. It's not a privilege to think this way and I want to challenge clinic owners to start by thinking this way and that is inevitably what makes your business better. And I would start at the top. I would start with that big vision, that picture that Jack described, as well as some of the things that fulfill you or some of the things that really light you up with your original vision to start the clinic. And you may feel so far from that because someone's just left and you're putting a job out up on seek and you got your latest bass bill. You may feel so far from your latest vision and that's okay. But we're challenging you here to come back to that and then go really practical. I would put some constraints on your week almost immediately after listening to this podcast and the rest of it will happen with momentum.

Ben Lynch: When you talk about the constraints for the week, even just getting into the nitty-gritty of this, we've talked about time and literally days and hours, then we've talked about tasks and responsibilities like what do you keep, what could you delegate, what could you work towards delegating because it may require a recruit internally or a virtual assistant as an example. And I often come back to this because I think about it a lot and I think I navigate things reasonably different to a lot of people that I see, which is a lot of this in my mind comes back to focus. And I think where you're focused, you can be present. And so if your time in your day and your week is constructed in a certain way that allows you to focus on the marketing or focus on the patient. And the task list is in such a way you can focus on the things you find joy or flow or you feel you're good at. That helps. And one thing that's just so obvious to me is notifications. I am just gobsmacked at how many people have their phone pinging with notifications. I have about 13 apps on my phone and most people have like 30 million and they're constantly pinging. When they screen share with me on Zoom in a coaching session and I see the email badge, new email come through, new email come through. I don't know how you can focus with the level of notifications going on in your life. And all I would say is, you're not that important. Period. If it's important, Make it clear you pick up the phone and there is a phone call that is delivered to you. I just, I'm gobsmacked. People's focus is constantly taken from them by notification badges and I'm sick of it and I've eliminated it from my life and it allows you to focus. Anyway. J.B., I didn't know if I could channel a rant like you, but there you go. I'm here for it.

Jack O'Brien: I'm here for it. It's good.

Ben Lynch: More. But I don't know what you guys think. It's such an easy, controllable thing to get focus back. Now, you might say, well, I'm the bottleneck for a bunch of decisions. Okay. Practically, what system can we implement? Policy can we implement with the team? Training can we implement so that they can solve more of the decisions without you? Or you just realize that message about that client doesn't need less than 60 second reply. I don't know. I see these people, and I see the people who can do deep work, and I see the people who are no good at deep work, and there's one thing that's very obvious. Well, on that note, we might put a wrap to this episode. Anyway, gents, thank you so much for your input. I love the high level. I love the philosophy and the principles, the clouds, and in the dirt, some of the practical things that you can change. If nothing else, get rid of your notifications and we'll see you on another episode. Maybe just keep the notification of whenever we launch an episode. You can keep that one. J.O.B., Michael Rizk, thank you so much for your contributions. We'll see you on another episode very soon. Bye for now. Bye-bye.